The Greed of the Breweries

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Benipete

I agree with you but the original thread blamed all brewery's for your own personal downfall.

What goes on between your "friend" and the brewery is nothing to do with me or indeed anyone else It is a contractual agreement.If he cannot reach an agreement then he must move on.

There are a lot of reasons for giving a good licensee the elbow but I'm not in the guessing game.

Sorry If I offended you I'm just a bit septic

I haven't suffered much at all, save a dip in the number of people who are currently turning up for games night which is neither here nor there for me.

However, the whole tone of the pub has changed and it has broken up that little community all for the sake of a bit of extra money in Marston's pot. Everyone was happy before and it was an absolute pleasure to walk through the door but now we're left with an experienced but disillusioned couple who have pulled out of the pub market and some disgruntled punters. Trade has taken a nosedive and takings must only be half of what they were before.

All pubs suffer a transitional shift between landlords but it was truly excellent before, packed to the rafters every night. Why mess with it by trying to screw more money out of a landlord when he's already tied to buying all his beer from you? The new tenancy agreement basically put him with the same money he was earning when he started but with four times the amount of work to do. I'd like to say that it's a unique situation that I'm blowing out of proportion but unfortunately I have witnessed it too many times now.

It isn't the government and it isn't (for the most part) the landlords that are doing the damage. Breweries, licencing companies, whatever you want to call them, it's their fault that the pubs are suffering and it will be Great Britain's loss in the end.

They can always turn round and blame taxes though, and people will believe them.

[cashman]

Funny enough Ken, i have always maintained, that the "Community" thing in pubs, the rot started when they opened em out, did away wi the vaults, snugs, games rooms, etc. that was when there was real community in boozers. may just be me, but what i reckon.

[Tealeaf]

You are bang on in there Cashy. The greatest mistake that the breweries made in the '70's and early '80's was to knock through the dividing walls in the mistaken belief that in so doing they could increase the sales psf - as in any retail operation. The problem was they never understood the alcohol market.

Old biddys and cloth capper's wanted to sup their halfs of muddy mild and Brandy and Bennys in the snug; the kids wanted to stick a tanner in the juke box and drink their lager while having a snog and a touch up in the best room and the lads wanted a game of darts and maybe watch the Match of the Day on a 17" black and white TV fin the taproom.

So all sorts could drink together under one roof. That is patently no longer the case - although with a few exceptions. Taken together with Thatcher's Beer Orders, the growth of uncontrolled booze sales in supermarkets and corner shops, non-alcohol consuming immigrants and the decline of heavy manufacturing (where employees had to replace sweat with booze) then it is really no surprise we see pubs closing everywhere.

[cashman]

Cheers T, thought perhaps twas just me, but its summat i have always maintained.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by cashman

Funny enough Ken, i have always maintained, that the "Community" thing in pubs, the rot started when they opened em out, did away wi the vaults, snugs, games rooms, etc. that was when there was real community in boozers. may just be me, but what i reckon.

Regrettably Cashy, those halcyon days are before my time but from listening to people it seems you have that one pretty much spot on.

[Barrie Yates]

"halcyon days are before my time"

So you are relying upon hearsay?

How much hearsay do you rely upon?

The pubs in my youth were cozy places, as Cashy suggested, little or no rowdiness, virtually no aggro inside. Perhaps the open plan destroyed that but perhaps it was also the guidance and control of the youth that contributed to the demise of the family pub that myself and Cashy actually experienced.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

The pubs in my youth were cozy places, as Cashy suggested, little or no rowdiness, virtually no aggro inside. Perhaps the open plan destroyed that but perhaps it was also the guidance and control of the youth that contributed to the demise of the family pub that myself and Cashy actually experienced.

Think that also was a small factor, i was on about where the rot started barrie, i.e. lost revenue fer landlords, many blokes used to pop in the vaults, lunch, n after work fer a hour, that revenue was lost in many cases,n there were many more boozers back then. perhaps the youth factor also worsened by the closure of dance halls, cinemas, youth clubs, leaving em little choice but those new "Open" pubs?

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

"halcyon days are before my time"

So you are relying upon hearsay?

How much hearsay do you rely upon?

Not mad keen on Labour councillors, are you?

If enough people with experience of something tell me the same story then I'm inclined to believe it. Or would you prefer me to blindly stick to one perspective and not listen to evidence of any kind?

Hell's teeth, I'm with the wrong Hyndburn party....

[Barrie Yates]

I would rather put my trust inpeople who have first hand experience - not hearsay from a number of people who are likely to be personal friends and therefore have similar ideas, tastes and biases.
I do not support any particular political party - but if I did, it would probably be somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan.
IMHO all politicians are tarred with the same brush.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

"halcyon days are before my time"

So you are relying upon hearsay?

How much hearsay do you rely upon?

The pubs in my youth were cozy places, as Cashy suggested, little or no rowdiness, virtually no aggro inside. Perhaps the open plan destroyed that but perhaps it was also the guidance and control of the youth that contributed to the demise of the family pub that myself and Cashy actually experienced.

Hmmmm, when it used to be a corner pub on just about every street, we couldn't swing a cat, never mind be violent.

Unfortunately however instead of a pub being a place on your corner street where regulars & strangers, (on their best behaviour, also welcome), landlord in control of EVERYTHING, (including "you've had enough go home I'll see you tomorrow"), looking after folk.

We now have no locals, I for example have to go into town and mix with urine heads that have no manners, all of us lumped together, a pub used to be a pleasant well monitored place to go, now we have just a few making all the money, nobody is a regular anymore.


Strangely, we are now called 'binge' drinkers, no, my friend I just drink as much as I can before the idiots come out and take over.

[Taggy]

Originally Posted by cashman

Funny enough Ken, i have always maintained, that the "Community" thing in pubs, the rot started when they opened em out, did away wi the vaults, snugs, games rooms, etc. that was when there was real community in boozers. may just be me, but what i reckon.

Can you remember just why that actually happened Cashy? I've been told by several people that it was something that was brought in after we joined the "European Union" as its now called, and it was a European directive that said that all areas of the Pub should be in view by the people behind the bar area!...Not sure if thats just complete twaddle because i cant find any info about that, and after all there's plenty of quirky little "Brown Bars" in Belgium, and old fashioned bars in France too, but certainly things started to degenerate around that time!

Best Regards - Taggy

[cashman]

sorry Taggy no idea, in those days was usually too drunk to bother wi facts.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Taggy

Can you remember just why that actually happened Cashy? I've been told by several people that it was something that was brought in after we joined the "European Union" as its now called, and it was a European directive that said that all areas of the Pub should be in view by the people behind the bar area!...Not sure if thats just complete twaddle because i cant find any info about that, and after all there's plenty of quirky little "Brown Bars" in Belgium, and old fashioned bars in France too, but certainly things started to degenerate around that time!

Best Regards - Taggy

That's a load of bunkum Taggy I was knocking pubs to pieces in the early to mid seventies long before there were any such thing as European directives it was just a common trading market in those days, it was the breweries themselves who wanted to get away from the many small roomed pubs and making them in one big roomed ones it was part of the psychedelic era, with plastic plants and outlandish wall paper, I was there and saw what they did, brewery architects were a blood menace believe me

[Taggy]

Originally Posted by jaysay

That's a load of bunkum Taggy I was knocking pubs to pieces in the early to mid seventies long before there were any such thing as European directives it was just a common trading market in those days, it was the breweries themselves who wanted to get away from the many small roomed pubs and making them in one big roomed ones it was part of the psychedelic era, with plastic plants and outlandish wall paper, I was there and saw what they did, brewery architects were a blood menace believe me

Well thats what i'd have thought Jaysay..as i say i never saw owt in print to state that...but it did start to happen just around after we joined "Common Market" so perhaps thats were these daft ideas got picked up!...I know it was a ruddy mistake... first they knocked them all through and made then all "light & airey" using pine or oak...then decided they wanted to go back to traditional styling and dark wood again!! They also became a fan of split level areas...sticking ruddy steps into pubs where none were previously..great for older people n wheelchairs!

Best Regards - Taggy

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

That's a load of bunkum Taggy I was knocking pubs to pieces in the early to mid seventies long before there were any such thing as European directives

Knocked a few to pieces meself, but you got paid fer doin it.