The Last Straw - Page 3

Gayle · 06-10-2006, 12:14

I read the story in the Telegraph and knew full well that there would be the typical 'outraged' response the day after. I suspect that the problem here lies with the media and not with the majority of muslims.

A polite question asked in a polite manner is neither offensive or obligatory. If, as Jack Straw says, he asks whether they will remove the veil, the woman then has the option to remove it or refuse to remove it. As long as Jack Straw doesn't refuse to speak to the woman if she won't remove it, I can not see what the problem is.

I can imagine, that he thought long and hard about raising the issue publicly as he knew it would provoke this response from the media. I'm afraid that it is a sign of the times that this would be swooped on by the press and made a huge fuss about it. It is not simple things like a polite question that is causing the divide between the cultures, it is the outrageous response that the media make of it all.

WillowTheWhisp · 06-10-2006, 12:22

A very sensible observation Gayle of something which can get out of hand very quickly with two sides of an argument raging when there was no real argument there in the first place. I notice how the Granada news was keen to interview angry young muslim men offended by what they perceived to be a non-muslim's dismissal of something important to them.

I can imagine the scene:

Jack S: Would you remind removing your veil when we speak?
Muslim woman: No, I don't mind at all.
Jack: Thank you very much
and they continue to talk

/or/

Jack S: Would you remind removing your veil when we speak?
Muslim woman: I really prefer not to.
Jack: Oh, alright, as you wish.
and they continue to talk

Not exactly material for anarchy and WWIII is it?

grannyclaret · 06-10-2006, 13:04

I dont think it was unreasonable of Jack Straw to ask to see the womans face,,,In my oppinnion the muslims pick and choose what they like and dont like about our customs,,,
We went to the blue mosque in Istanbul,and we "HAD"to take our shoes off,which was only right and proper to follow their custom.... we did it because it was only curtesy to do so,,,but i think there might have been a few objections from the locals if we haddent...

jambutty · 06-10-2006, 13:06

The real problem with some of the more militant Muslims is that they will jump on anything that ever so slightly questions Islam. And the press as well but they only want to sell newspapers so they will stir things up.

I go back to my original point – would a Muslim woman be allowed to remain veiled in a British court of law in the UK if she was a witness or defendant? I just cannot see the judge allowing a witness to be cross examined without him, the jury and barristers being able to see the face of the witness. Nor can I see a Muslim woman being allowed to remain veiled if she were a defendant. The judge and in particular the jury would like to see the face of the defendant as the trial progresses.

So on balance I think that Jack Straw MP was correct in asking veiled Muslim women to remove the veil during consultations.

I see that it has been reported today that Tony Blair has distanced himself on this issue and it is not government policy.

Tealeaf · 06-10-2006, 13:17

My understanding is that those who opt to wear the full veil are following the extreme interpretation of Islam, which also states there is no law but gods law. As such, they do not recognise the authority of goverments. Straw - and any other MP for that matter - should therefore recipricate and simply tell these jokers to p*ss off out of the surgery. Simple, really.

cashman · 06-10-2006, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

My understanding is that those who opt to wear the full veil are following the extreme interpretation of Islam, which also states there is no law but gods law. As such, they do not recognise the authority of goverments. Straw - and any other MP for that matter - should therefore recipricate and simply tell these jokers to p*ss off out of the surgery. Simple, really.

T you certainly have a way of cracking me up.

Billcat · 06-10-2006, 16:20

Interesting....

I've always wondered how many of the women wear the garb because it is comfortable for them or they wish to, how many because their family demands that they do, and how many because they live in a society where it is expected?

Regarding Jack Straw MP, I can see many reasons why a doctor would wish to see the patient's face. Medicine is more than merely talking with a patient. It is also observing many physical aspects of that patient. For instance, both the skin and the sclera of the eye may reveal clues to medical issues.

West Ender · 06-10-2006, 16:28

I would not like to be medically examined by Jack Straw especially as he isn't, as far as I'm aware, a doctor.

Tealeaf · 06-10-2006, 16:30

Errr....I think Billcat is getting confused between an MP and an MD (Member of Parliament (UK) and Medical Doctor (US)). Jack Straw is an MP.

steeljack · 06-10-2006, 16:39

I wouldn't surprise me a bit if Jack Straw didn't stand at the next election ,considering the local demographics and Mr Straws background I'm surprised he has been there so long . Blackburn being a strong labour seat you can be sure the central kommitte allready have the next candidate lined up , someone who will reflect the face of modern Britain .

WillowTheWhisp · 06-10-2006, 17:23

I think it may have been the word "surgery" which confused Billcat.

garinda · 07-10-2006, 15:07

I don't know if I was more aware of it because of all the stories in the news this week, but shopping in Accrington today there seemed to be many more veiled women than usual.

Jack Straw's, in my opinion very fair comments, might infact produce a backlash, and even more Muslim women might wear the veil in protest.

steve · 07-10-2006, 15:30

It is a option for them not a compultion.

AccyJay · 07-10-2006, 15:41

I've just been wandering, & come across a couple of interesting sites. Links below.

http://blogs.theasiannews.co.uk/asia..._the_veil.html

http://www.theasiannews.co.uk/herita..._the_veil.html

WillowTheWhisp · 07-10-2006, 16:25

Quote:

Their white colleagues have no qualms about it, their neighbours do not either and when stranger asks them why they have covered their face, considering it was in a polite manner, they are more than willing to sit down with them with a cup of tea and explain what being a Muslim means to them and why they wear the niqab.

When I read that bit I couldn't help wondering ..............how?