The Last Straw - Page 5

garinda · 08-10-2006, 00:04

Accusations have been made of us being racist on here recently.

Reading some of the posts and comments in this thread, even with the smiley after, they sadly aren't far off.

I'm not getting into a defensive argument about which posts. Any right minded person can clearly see the thinly veiled hatred and fear.

garinda · 08-10-2006, 00:10

The sort of crap posted by some people in this thread is exactly like the anti-semetic propoganda used by the Nazis in Germany in the 1920/30's.

Very saddening.

WillowTheWhisp · 08-10-2006, 00:10

Have you seen the front page of the Observer? I presume it was ths week's, we saw it in a chippy. I'll see if I can find an online link.

garinda · 08-10-2006, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Have you seen the front page of the Observer? I presume it was ths week's, we saw it in a chippy. I'll see if I can find an online link.

Yes it was good. Muslim leaders could, and should, be doing a hell of a lot more to encourage intergration, and stop the fear put about by scaremongering idiots.

WillowTheWhisp · 08-10-2006, 00:13

Here we go, this is it.

I wish him every success and hope he gets the full support of the council.

WillowTheWhisp · 08-10-2006, 00:15

Perhaps some of the scaremongering idiots on all sides could do with a little bit of dialogue and getting to know each other. Dare I say it again?-- Maybe they need to remember that we are all human.

jambutty · 08-10-2006, 09:58

Much obliged for the information garinda. Isn’t the Internet wonderful for obtaining information?

Quote:

Accusations have been made of us being racist on here recently.

Reading some of the posts and comments in this thread, even with the smiley after, they sadly aren't far off.

I'm not getting into a defensive argument about which posts. Any right minded person can clearly see the thinly veiled hatred and fear.

Why not name the posts that you consider as racist to prove your point and give them a chance to reply. Someone could also state “reading most of the posts shows no sign of racism.”

If trying to protect my country from an Islamic invasion is racist then you can call me a racist.

There is fear, fear of being swept aside to make way for Islam. Pointing out what is happening is not scare mongering or being racist.

Put the whole issue on a personal level. You take in a homeless person onto your house and give them personal use of one bedroom and integrated use of the bathroom and kitchen. After a while his lady friend starts to stay overnight at weekends and then before you know it she has moved in with him. Next comes taking over the kitchen because they don’t eat the same food as you do. So you allow them some space to store their food. Soon she always seems to be cooking her and her fellows meals just when you want to cook for your family. You are slowly being pushed aside in your own home. That is what is happening on a national level.

This integration thing is mostly one way WillowTheWhisp. We are content in having immigrants integrating with us but the Muslim community want it on their terms and if they don’t get it then they don’t.

There are many moderates, of course, who just want to get on with their lives but they are ruled by the mosque leaders and when it comes to the crunch they will side with them or be ostracised.

I wish Wahid Iqbal success in his venture. However if one in three Muslim children are poorly educated that means two in three are well educated and the immigrant student level at the Blackburn College bears that out. Compare that to the recent report that suggests that over 500 schools are below standard in spite of the government’s claims that it is only 50.

garinda · 08-10-2006, 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Much obliged for the information garinda. Isn’t the Internet wonderful for obtaining information?

Yes it is. However, in this case I knew what you had posted was wrong, because I'd watched a television programme last week about architecture, which mentioned the Victorian building in Woking being the first purpose built mosque in Britain.

Gayle · 08-10-2006, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

However if one in three Muslim children are poorly educated that means two in three are well educated and the immigrant student level at the Blackburn College bears that out.

By what criteria are you defining 'immigrant students' - do you have figures about how many of the students you refer to have actually just located in the UK or are you basing it on the number of 'coloured' (for want of a better word) faces that you see around the college?

katex · 08-10-2006, 10:50

A lady muslim writer quoted in a paper yesterday that the veil had nothing to do with Islam at all ... the veil actually came out of the desert when there were sandstorms and people had to cover their faces ! Well, could be acceptable on Blackpool beach I suppose.

Also a Blackburn student stated that they wore them so as not to draw attention to themselves .. well, they alert my attention, scare me to death when you round the corner of an aisle in Asda. Also that they are keeping their beauty to themselves. Can't just get my head around this latter comment .. you only know you are beautiful if other people comment on it. don't you ??

Acrylic-bob · 08-10-2006, 10:57

Hello Everyone,

I thought I might as well drop my two-pennorth into the argument, if nobody objects.

I largely agree with Jambutty and Tealeaf on this; the matter, at heart, is one of a refusal by a minority to pay anything more than the most superficial lip service to the concept of integration. The minority are jealous of the rights they have as British subjects, but are careless and largely ignorant of the responsibilities that are concomittant with those rights - you know, old fashioned British concepts like ummmm.... fair play, honesty, respect for the law and simple courtesy.

As many of you are no doubt aware, I have very little time for or patience with religionists of whatever stripe or flavour. Nor do I have time or patience to consider or pander to their often bizarre and illogical self-imposed limitations. The Niquab and Bourka I count among these limitations. They are worn to assert difference and as an affront to the host culture which is largely despised. It would not surprise to to discover that there is also an element of radical muslim chic mixed up in there too!

Unusually, for me, I agree that Jack Straw was correct in drawing this issue to the attention of the public. Though considering the supine response of the Labour Party in connection with the issues of mass immigration from the Indian Sub-continent and mealy mouthed, politically correct, apologism in the face of the excesses of the immigrant population, I rather fancy it is, as usual, too little, too late.

garinda · 08-10-2006, 11:05

Welcome back A-b.

As posted, I too agree with Jack Straw. What I do find frightening is that this, and other issues, are being used as a tool to spread fear and hatred.

Also as posted I think Muslim leaders could be doing a hell of a lot more to allay these fears.

Just a question, when does an 'immigrant' stop being called an immigrant?

Second, third, fourth generation?

I have some Irish friends who who be interested in the answer, or is it not applicable because they are white?

Acrylic-bob · 08-10-2006, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Just a question, when does an 'immigrant' stop being called an immigrant?

Second, third, fourth generation?

I have some Irish friends who who be interested in the answer, or is it not applicable because they are white?

It's nice to be back, but it's just a flying visit I'm afraid.

In answer to your question, I think that they stop being "immigrants" when they pass the Norman Tebbit Test or perhaps when the test becomes irrelevant.

garinda · 08-10-2006, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

In answer to your question, I think that they stop being "immigrants" when they pass the Norman Tebbit Test or perhaps when the test becomes irrelevant.

Tebbit test?

Whoosh, over my head.

When they can ride a bike to look for a job??

Gayle · 08-10-2006, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Welcome back A-b.

As posted, I too agree with Jack Straw. What I do find frightening is that this, and other issues, are being used as a tool to spread fear and hatred.

Also as posted I think Muslim leaders could be doing a hell of a lot more to allay these fears.

Just a question, when does an 'immigrant' stop being called an immigrant?

Second, third, fourth generation?

I have some Irish friends who who be interested in the answer, or is it not applicable because they are white?

That was my thought really, which is why I asked it of Jambutty. A lot of the people that he is calling 'immigrant' are probably 2nd or 3rd generation. If that is the case then he is basing his argument and his assumptions on 'colour' and not strictly speaking on religion.