The Last Straw - Page 9

WillowTheWhisp · 16-10-2006, 14:31

That's the one AccyJay. Thanks very much.

Tealeaf · 16-10-2006, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I was also thinking about the Amish in the USA. They have their own mode of dress and shun most modern devices and appliances. They co-exist alongside others yet keep themselves very much to themselves, more so than muslims living in this country, and yet there seems to be no antagonism towards them.

That is probably because they don't go ramming planes into skyscrapers or committing acts of mass murder on the underground railway

Neil · 16-10-2006, 15:00

Maybe they do and just blame it on muslims

Alvin the chipmunk · 16-10-2006, 19:37

Jack Straw is the only MP to speak out for the silent majority. For airing the views of a mainly CHRISTIAN country he is condemned as a racist.
Why do white people have to remove hoods, helmets etc, but this is allowed? Surely this is anti-white racism? Should banks etc be tried for inciting racial hatred as well, just as these meddlers say of our Jack?

AND BEFORE ANYBODY SAY IT, DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT PLAYING THE RELIGION CARD.
I KNOW FOR A FACT ITS A LIFESTYLE CHOICE AND ITS NOT A LAW OF ISLAM.

It has to be said. Its a Christian country. I have no problems with other faiths.....so long as I am not affected by them. If I went to any other country I would try to integrate, not segregate myself.....so why do they do it.

No one forces other faiths to live here, and if they kick off over a perfectly reasonable comment from Mr Straw, then they know where the exit is.

BACK JACK!!!!!

Bagpuss · 16-10-2006, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvin the chipmunk

then they know where the exit is.

Point of order, they don't know where the exit is only the entrance.

West Ender · 16-10-2006, 20:07

The Trevor McDonald programme on ITV tonight was very interesting. The Muslim girl who was in "The Apprentice", very Westernised but still a good Muslim, tried wearing a niqab for a while and hated it. She also talked to women who do wear it and got their reasons, most of which didn't make a lot of sense to me.

She's a young woman I can admire. She dresses in Western clothes and doesn't cover her head but it doesn't interfere with her religious beliefs. She's smart and intelligent and she has a mind of her own. She would make the perfect role-model for the sheep-like women who are now following extremist dictation and, effectively, oppressing themselves due to a misplaced sense of religious identity.

WillowTheWhisp · 16-10-2006, 22:11

The difficulty many non-muslims have is that they don't realise there are probably as many types of Muslims as there are Christians and what is acceptable to one group isn't necessarily acceptable to another.

jambutty · 18-10-2006, 12:09

This veil issue has got out of hand. Jeremy Vine is now asking listeners to vote on whether, the full Muslim dress the nikab (that leaves just the eyes visible), should be banned or not. I assume that this would also include the dress that hides the eyes behind a veil.

My answer is NO it should not be banned. What should happen is that if two people meet they should be able to see each other’s faces, especially if the meeting is to conduct some sort of business. The only exception being if the two people involved are both wearing clothing that covers all or part of the face. There is one other exception and that is if someone has a badly disfigured face that they feel uncomfortable with and do not want to show it. Although that could open a whole new can of worms.

“Please remove your veil.”
“Sorry I can’t, I have a disfigured face.”
How to you prove that they haven’t?

I would refuse to be served by a shopkeeper or checkout lady if she was fully veiled. If I were being interviewed for a job or presenting my application for Housing Benefits etc. I would ask for the interviewer to either remove the veil or change places with a non-veiled person. It would be exactly the same the other way around. I would not serve a veiled person nor interview them until they removed the veil.

This whole issue isn’t about the many different facets that have sprung up around it but simply conducting business face to face unhindered by a veil. That is the western way and nothing and no one should challenge that.

SPUGGIE J · 18-10-2006, 12:33

To want the banning of a way people dress is against all that the so called free world boasts about. The veil is as much a part of their cultural identity as as the kilt is for the Scots, cowboy boots worn by Texans, cloth caps are for northerners etc etc etc. Ban one item and then we are on a slippery road downhill very rapid. I personally dont find anything wrong with it and would have no objections having an interview etc whith a person who wears one as to me it is their right to.

Tealeaf · 18-10-2006, 12:53

...so presumably you would let people wonder naked through the streets?

jambutty · 18-10-2006, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

...so presumably you would let people wonder naked through the streets?

Eh?

Muslim women are fully clothed under the nikab Tealeaf

The result of the Jeremy Vine phone poll are that 96% of 6,350 callers said yes the nikab should be banned.

SPUGGIE J · 18-10-2006, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

...so presumably you would let people wonder naked through the streets?

Some girls aint far from that now. There needs to be a balance and then there is no room for this kind of issue and the problems that go with it.

Tealeaf · 18-10-2006, 13:16

The result of the Jeremy Vine phone poll are that 96% of 6,350 callers said yes the nikab should be banned.
__________________

It would appear to me that in a democracy, if the vast majority of people find something offensive - such as nudity in a public place or smirking behind a mask - then legislation is put in place to stop the practice. If the majority of people want this banned because it is offensive to them, then go ahead and do it - that is democracy.

chav1 · 18-10-2006, 13:27

democracy only works for the minority in the UK tealeaf

the way things work is we have a vote and whatever the minority wants it gets and the majority go without , i guess its reverse democracy

jambutty · 18-10-2006, 13:32

As much as I agree with you Tealeaf that in a democracy the majority rules but in this case the poll was not about the original issue.

However in this country only lip service is paid to true democracy as chav1 has pointed out.

The media and some citizens have twisted it away from the original issue and that was simply should a person be required to remove the veil in a one to one situation like attending a consultation with an MP in the constituency surgery? From that it also follows that the veil should also be removed whilst attending banks, post offices, police stations, courts, job interviews and meetings with officials. And as a matter of courtesy when meeting and talking to a member of the public. In short anywhere where a person wearing a full face crash helmet would be required to remove it.