The Law's an Ass

[WillowTheWhisp]

Nice to see you back Jaysay. Hope you're feeling well now.

[Neil]

I agree with Blazey on this one. If she emptied the flat illegally then she should have lost in court.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I would agree if she had disposed of the contents but she didn't she put them in storage at her own expense so although she didn't go about it as she should have done she had obviously not wanted to create a hooha if he ever came back for his stuff.

[Neil]

He could have been working away and come back to find she had emptied his flat.

You can't just throw out a tenant because they have made a mess of your flat. You have to abide by the tenancy agreement and the law. There are correct ways to evict a tenant within the law. The law should and does protect both the tenant and land lord. She did not so he was within his right to sue. She lost and should have done.

The only reason the story even hit the papers is because he is in jail.

[Eric]

I don't see why one should damn a law just because it doesn't conform to one's personal biases. The law is above this; that is why it works, and why it is necessary. Some say "this is a good law, because it confirms and supports what I believe; and this law is a bad law because it doesn't conform to my prejudices." They are not in fact talking about law at all, but about their own idiosyncrasies.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by churchman phil

BBC NEWS | England | Kent | Rapist sues landlady from prison

A hairdresser has said she hopes to appeal after a convicted rapist sued her from jail when she cleared out the flat he rented above one of her salons.

Errrrrrmmmmmmmmmm.........the law goes mad again!!!!

The newspaper article doesn’t give the full story only the emotive rapist bit and certainly doesn’t reveal the terms of the tenancy agreement. And that is what the case rests on.

I assume that the tenancy agreement was presented in court and the judge would have decided if Mrs Goymer had breached it. It has to be presumed that he thought she had because he found for the defendant.

So until we know the full details we cannot say that the law was an ass or not.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Neil

He could have been working away and come back to find she had emptied his flat.

You can't just throw out a tenant because they have made a mess of your flat. You have to abide by the tenancy agreement and the law. There are correct ways to evict a tenant within the law. The law should and does protect both the tenant and land lord. She did not so he was within his right to sue. She lost and should have done.

The only reason the story even hit the papers is because he is in jail.

Actually you can throw out a tenant if s/he makes a mess of the rented accommodation, IF the tenancy agreement has provision for such action.

[Bonnyboy]

This was a publicly-funded case. We paid for this to be brought before the Courts. I wasn’t asked whether I wanted to fund it, was anyone else ??

His rights should diminish while he is serving his time ( supposedly life in this instance ) What makes him think he will return to the flat…ahhh I know, life doesn’t mean “life” with our Courts does it.

I think his Landlord did well by the man by putting his belongings into storage.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Bonnyboy

This was a publicly-funded case. We paid for this to be brought before the Courts. I wasn’t asked whether I wanted to fund it, was anyone else ??

His rights should diminish while he is serving his time ( supposedly life in this instance ) What makes him think he will return to the flat…ahhh I know, life doesn’t mean “life” with our Courts does it.

I think his Landlord did well by the man by putting his belongings into storage.

No one is asked if they wanted to fund any public purse legal expenses.

I agree a prisoner’s rights should diminish whilst in jail but the reality is that they don’t appear to.

But if the landlady breached the tenancy agreement then she was in the wrong.

[blazey]

He wasn't convicted of any crime when she decided to put his things into storage. The fact he won his claim suggests that the only person who breached the contract was her, therefore she is legally in the wrong. The fact that he is a rapist doesn't matter.

I can't put it any simpler than what I already have done. I just study the law, I don't make it, and I certainly don't make the decisions, but in this case I personally would've made the same decision.

[accyman]

i cant see in the article if when they say he paid his rent it means he went to work and paid his rent or if he claimed the rent from the council which realisticly woudl mean that everyone else paid his rent and not him

if he was on benefits then the council if notified of his conviction would have stopped the rent been paid but as what quite often happens people go to prison and the rent still gets paid

no matter what the contract says as soon as a person is sent to prison the landlord should be able to throw out the contents of the property after an acceptable amount of time to allow arrangements to be made bythe tennants friends or family to remove the contents but up until conviction no action should be allowed to be made as the accused may be found not guilty

[blazey]

Originally Posted by accyman

i cant see in the article if when they say he paid his rent it means he went to work and paid his rent or if he claimed the rent from the council which realisticly woudl mean that everyone else paid his rent and not him

if he was on benefits then the council if notified of his conviction would have stopped the rent been paid but as what quite often happens people go to prison and the rent still gets paid

no matter what the contract says as soon as a person is sent to prison the landlord should be able to throw out the contents of the property after an acceptable amount of time to allow arrangements to be made bythe tennants friends or family to remove the contents but up until conviction no action should be allowed to be made as the accused may be found not guilty

You are allowed to do that but you have to seek permission from the court first, which she didn't, hence why she got fined.

It's pretty simple really, she didn't follow standard procedure so she was forced to cough up. The judge couldn't treat the guy like a rapist, he had to treat him like an ordinary citizen and award damages, and the fee's have to be paid by someone and it's also the norm that the losing side pays the fees.

I'm still trying to graps what is unconservative of me agreeing to this case, contract law is centuries old and I am not saying lets be lenient with it, I'm saying keep to it.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by jambutty

Actually you can throw out a tenant if s/he makes a mess of the rented accommodation, IF the tenancy agreement has provision for such action.

It would be a poor tenancy agreement if it didn't. Perhaps she should look into that. If there was rotting food in the flat surely that would have been a health and safety issue?

Also, it's an interesting point about if he was still claiming housing benefit whilst in jail and if not who was paying the rent? He could find himself on dodgy ground if claiming benefits he wasn't entitled to due to being in jail. This might just come back to bite him. I can't help feeling that I hope it does.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

This might just come back to bite him. I can't help feeling that I hope it does.

I don't think he will care, he is doing life isn't he?

[WillowTheWhisp]

And how long is life? A few more years added onto that wouldn't go amiss. Or maybe a huge fine which strips him of all his assetts not just the award he got from this case but the bailiffs selling all those possessions so the landlady doesn't have to keep paying for their storage. (I wonder what happens to those costs now anyway?) I'm sure he will care about losing everything. He cares about losing his flat doesn't he?