The Mandela Effect

[MargaretR]

This is a puzzling phenomenon that many people report as having experienced, whereby 'history' as accepted now, differs from what they personally recall.
It is given the term 'Mandela effect' because of the very many people who reported that they recall Nelson Mandela's death being reported decades before the 'recent' death only a few years ago.

This has also been the experience applied to several other deaths of famous/notorious persons whose demise has received public attention.

The phenomenon not only applies to such deaths, but to strange changes between what is remembered and what is now regarded as 'fact'.

For example -
..A man reported that during a regular drive past a row of shops, he noticed one has changed type of trading overnight and the shop owners insist they have traded those goods there for years.

These anomalies represent subtle puzzling changes in what is accepted as 'reality'

Another frequently reported anomaly is the location of New Zealand's position and distance from Australia. - It isn't where I recall school maps showed it in the 50's.

It is evident that 'historic memories' differ between people.
Persons of all ages report it, so it isn't 'dementia related'.

One possible theory for it is multiple parallel universes coexist which have subtle insignificant changes (glitches) from each other, where a 'you' exists in all of them, and your conscious awareness has unintentionally shifted from one to another.

I have personally been puzzled by several such anomalies, and hope you can tell some of your own (I don't want to be the only nutter is the village)

In the 50's I recall reading newspaper headlines reporting the fire destruction of the Crystal Palace. I believed this to be a 'fact' which to me was incidental and irrelevant, and was puzzled to discover, only a few years ago, that it happened in 1936 - before I was born !

[Margaret Pilkington]

An interesting idea Margaret.
I can't say I have any experiences to add that illustrate this theory.
I do know that when we remember something, it is from our own perspective.....so my sister and I may have been at the same event, but our memories of it will be very slightly different.....because our perspectives are different.
The core substance.....such as the time place etc will essentially be the same, but our memories of it will not be the same.
I know that this isn't what you meant.....but it is all I have.

If your theory about existences in parallel universes is true.....then why is my current life so hectic in all of them?
Couldn't just one of them allow me to be somewhere nice, sunny and warm......with good company and a glass of something cold to sip on(not necessarily alcoholic) !

[Eric]

Considering that many physicists argue that there are at least 10 to the power 10 parallel universes, speculations, such as MargaretR has introduced, are not out of whack. I'm with Heisenberg on this one: "Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think." I don't think that there are an infinite number. There are problems in our own universe with the question of infinity. If one accepts the Big Bang, then the universe must be finite.

I think I'll smoke another joint and give this some more thought.

[westendlass]

If I had a joint I think I'd smoke one too after that Eric, haha!

[Eric]

Originally Posted by westendlass

If I had a joint I think I'd smoke one too after that Eric, haha!

Maybe one needs a little help getting one's head around 100,000,000,000 universes. Maybe there are not that many; maybe there are more. But, whatever, there have to be at least two.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

This is a puzzling phenomenon that many people report as having experienced, whereby 'history' as accepted now, differs from what they personally recall.
It is given the term 'Mandela effect' because of the very many people who reported that they recall Nelson Mandela's death being reported decades before the 'recent' death only a few years ago.

This has also been the experience applied to several other deaths of famous/notorious persons whose demise has received public attention.

The phenomenon not only applies to such deaths, but to strange changes between what is remembered and what is now regarded as 'fact'.

For example -
..A man reported that during a regular drive past a row of shops, he noticed one has changed type of trading overnight and the shop owners insist they have traded those goods there for years.

These anomalies represent subtle puzzling changes in what is accepted as 'reality'

Another frequently reported anomaly is the location of New Zealand's position and distance from Australia. - It isn't where I recall school maps showed it in the 50's.

It is evident that 'historic memories' differ between people.
Persons of all ages report it, so it isn't 'dementia related'.

One possible theory for it is multiple parallel universes coexist which have subtle insignificant changes (glitches) from each other, where a 'you' exists in all of them, and your conscious awareness has unintentionally shifted from one to another.

I have personally been puzzled by several such anomalies, and hope you can tell some of your own (I don't want to be the only nutter is the village)

In the 50's I recall reading newspaper headlines reporting the fire destruction of the Crystal Palace. I believed this to be a 'fact' which to me was incidental and irrelevant, and was puzzled to discover, only a few years ago, that it happened in 1936 - before I was born !

Or it could just be the most complex part of the human body screwing around, electrical impulses misfiring or jumping into the wrong synapse.

For me, once lived in a house for 12 years before I noticed a telegraph pole 20 yards away, despite the fact that I opened my curtains every morning with it directly in my line of sight.....

And everyone has experienced 'deja vu'....we've all had that been there, seen that, done that moment split second that the brain occasionally takes to catch up with reality

[Eric]

Perhaps instead of "The Mandela Effect," we should call it "The Demdike Effect" ... give it a strong Lancashire connection.

[dotti34]

I found this thread very interesting. As I hadn’t heard of the Mandela Effect and didn’t know what it was pertaining to, I looked it up on the Internet and have since given it much thought. However, having read the basis of the theory I can’t say I’m a supporter of it. I am more inclined to the fact that it is simply a false memory – as suggested on other sites.

There are many times when I have dates/facts wrong regarding happenings but this is only because my memory has played me false – or maybe the fact that I’m old!

Still people are entitled to believe in what they believe.

However, if it is only false memories then my husband is a prime example of the Mandela Effect, having more false memories than anyone I know. He often relates experiences we supposedly shared, but with the telling comes the ‘false memory’ and I say ‘was I there?’ because I don’t recognise much of what he’s telling, he embroiders the story somewhat.

His stories improve with the telling – just ask my kids, and he is so sure of his facts that he will argue the point, adamant he is right – even if proved to be wrong!

Conclusion is that personally I don’t give credence to the parallel universe theory any more than I give to most of my husband’s stories.

On a slightly different tack I do believe that many of us are psychic to some degree, some more than others. Lots of times this has been proved to me. A regular occurrence is that when I’m making out my lottery entry there will always be one number that keeps bugging me and sure enough that will come up – unfortunately I’m not psychic enough to know what the other 5 are! (But I’m working on it).

[cashman]

I agree wi dotti, think its a load of balls.

[dotti34]

There are times though when I think I must be invisible, like when people bump into me when I’m out as if they can’t see me – especially in busy shopping centres, or don’t let me through with my trolley even when I say very politely ‘excuse me’. They continue to group together in the shopping aisle making it near impossible to get through with a shopping trolley as they catch up with the latest gossip (or maybe the latest episode of some soap opera) as if I’m not there. So maybe I’m not in their particular universe.....

….or maybe they’re just you-know-what rude!

[MargaretR]

I enjoy ancient history city building strategy games.
I began playing them circa 2000. I gave my collection to the Stanley charity fund raising operation a few years ago.

A few months back I had the urge to play them again so needed to re-buy the CDs via Ebay.
The games have not been revamped since initially published, yet some of the city settings and objectives were different; some were familiar.

One particular city build involved construction of an enormous pyramid (brick by brick), which filled the screen and took ages (unforgettable)- that was not there anymore.

[Eric]

Some comments on deja vu by Wilder Penfield.


Penfield's expansion of the interpretive cortex includes the phenomena of déjà vu. Déjà vu is defined as the sensation that an experience an individual is presently experiencing has previously been experienced. Déjà vu is typically experienced by individuals between the ages of 15 to 25, and only affects approximately 60-70% of individuals. It is thought to be a mismatch of the sensory input individuals receive and the system in which the brain recalls memory. Another thought on the cause of déjà vu is that there is a malfunction in the brain's short- and long-term memory systems where memories become stored in incorrect systems. There are a couple of ways one can recognize familiar experiences - by mentally retrieving memories of a previous experience, or by having a feeling that an experience has occurred when it actually has not. Déjà vu is having that feeling of familiarity in a situation that is completely new. Memory is good at being familiar with objects, however it does not do well with the configuration or organization of objects. Déjà vu is an extreme reaction to the mind telling an individual that they are having a familiar experience. Déjà vu is thought to be a consistent phenomenon. However, it has been associated with multiple psychiatric disorders such as epilepsy, schizophrenia, and anxiety, but there has not been a clear, frequent diagnostic correlation between déjà vu and psychiatric disorders, except with patients that have a possibility of being epileptic. Temporal lobe epilepsy affects the hippocampus. Patients that suffer from this medical diagnosis are said to have a misfiring of the brain's neurons. The neurons transmit at random which results in the false sense of experiencing a familiar situation that had previously been experienced. Different types of déjà vu are difficult to pin point because researchers who have studied déjà vu have developed their own categories and differentiations. On a broad perspective of research that is available, déjà vu can be divided into two categories - associative déjà vu and biological déjà vu. Associative déjà vu is typically experienced by normal, healthy individuals who experience things with the senses that can be associated to other experiences or past events. Biological déjà vu occurs in individuals who suffer from temporal lobe epilepsy. Their experience of déjà vu occurs usually just before they experience a seizure. Recent research is looking at the new occurrence of chronic déjà vu. Chronic déjà vu is when an individual is experiencing a constant state of déjà vu. Failure of the temporal lobe is thought to be the cause of this phenomenon because the circuits that connect to memories get stuck in an active state, and create memories that never happened.

Or, as Yogi Berra said: "It's like deja vu all over again."

This would seem to place the argument in the individual brain rather than in alternate universes. Although there probably are billions of the suckers, it may be that they are closed systems, beyond reach ... although I prefer to think that isn't true.

Humanity has arrived where it is through risky speculations and actions; and to dismiss out of hand any theory, however weird, concerning the universe and the human brain is really quite silly. Off-the-wall ideas such as sub-atomic particles, a heliocentric universe, even that the earth was not flat, were once dismissed as "a load of balls" If everyone thought like that men would still be painting their balls blue and dragging women off into caves. Come to think of it, if it were consensual, that wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Margaret Pilkington]

What are considered 'whacky ideas' should not be dismissed out of hand, as science is still evolving....it does not have the answer to everything.......if you had told the people in the Middle Ages that we would(in the future) be able to get pictures through the air.....that we would be able to cook with microwaves.....that we would be able to see inside the body by using magnetism(MRIscanner)..... You would have been branded a witch and given a taste of the ducking stool.

[dotti34]

I agree Margaret, so-called ‘whacky ideas’ should not be dismissed out-of-hand. I know that years ago people would not have believed that some of the things we take for granted now would have been possible. Come to that, some of the ever-evolving inventions of today I find hard to believe are possible myself. I'm still overawed by the fact that I can see and talk to someone in another country through my computer.....so even things like 3D printers are way beyond my comprehension. As for talking into a wristwatch, well Dick Tracy eat your heart out.

However, to my way of thinking (and everyone is entitled to think how they will, whether they are right or wrong) the fact that names have been changed or some things seem different to what we remember does not necessarily mean that these things have jumped from one universe to another. It is possible that it is a matter of modernisation, making situations more up-to-date, or simply a mistake on some person’s part – spelling or otherwise – or a false memory on our own.

I have an open mind especially regarding strange phenomena, and believe in things that some others may be sceptical about but the evidence provided so far regarding a parallel universe does not convince me personally. I don’t dismiss the possibility that such a phenomenon might exist - that is way beyond my knowledge and comprehension, I just don’t accept that the so-called evidence provided at this time proves that it does, at least not to me.

By the way, him indoors believes there definitely is a Loch Ness monster....

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes, Dotti......you are right.
You have to have an open mind...but not so open that your brain falls out.

Some ideas are brain boggling, they create more questions than answers.....and I am always ready to ask questions.....to not always accept things at face value.
There is nothing at all wrong with a dose of healthy scepticism.