The Pope

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

Christians believe, or should believe, that death is merely the transition from earthly life into immortal life. It is not something to be feared, rather it is something to be celebrated. This is the reason we hold wakes and believe in giving the deceased "a good send off"

There can be nothing embarrasing or unpalatable in explaining a basic fact of life to our children. If anything the sooner they get used to the idea the better. What is strange and odd however, is to want to cosset them and conceal the truth of their condition from them. How does this prepare them for life?

The preservation of tokens or relics of the dead is an activity that is as old as humanity, photography is merely an extension of this.

This is exactly where I'm coming from A-b.

We had a great celebratory funeral for my late husband and children were welcome to attend. Most of the people he and I knew felt the same way and it wasn't odd for them to bring their children along. The service wasn't morbid at all it was full of joy at having known him with people sharing anecdotes most of them humorous. My older daughter's best friend who practically lived at our house at the time (came here after school, often had her tea here etc when she went to Spring Hill CP) asked if she could come (even though her mother didn't because she didn't know him as well.) It was that kind of funeral.

We had some songs that he'd loved sung by our choir and as I'm a member I joined in too.

I actually asked a friend who helped prepare his body for burial if he would get me a lock of hair to keep. It seemed crazy that I had thrown away so much hair when I'd previously cut my husband's hair for him and then to have a liittle curl was so important to me. So I suppose that was my version of a relic.

As far as the girls were and are concerned their Dad had no more use for his earthly body and had moved on to some exciting adventure that they'll be able to share in one day and look forward to. Death isn't something I fear and most of my friends are the same which is why I didn't understand that some people are even afraid of the sight of a deceased person. Another good reason for being able to discuss these things on here so that we widen our horizons and see things from a different perspective.

[Tinkerbelle]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I didn't understand that some people are even afraid of the sight of a deceased person. Another good reason for being able to discuss these things on here so that we widen our horizons and see things from a different perspective.

I didn't mind Sklinky mentioning it earlier but I wasn't going to reply.

I can't speak for any body else that is afraid of seeing a deceased body but mine is just an irrational fear, it's a phobia. Some people fear things like balloons and everybody thinks thats wierd. I can't explain I am just terrified, I even feel funny typing about it I am a strange one at times I know!

[WillowTheWhisp]

Well that's the value of AccyWeb because without discussing it here we'd never know we had such differing views.

I have a slight phobia about confined spaces. It isn't too debilitating but I just couldn't cope to be in a small space (no good me taking up potholing) I couldn't go through a low deep archway but it isn't that bad that I can't watch other people doing it.

Our best man's wife's balloon phobia seems to be to the extent of not even being able to be in the same pub let alone the same room as them which is a real problem for our wedding reception and we haven't found a solution to that yet.

[West Ender]

Oh, Willow, I feel just the same. I'm not a Christian, in the strictest sense of the word, though I have my own private beliefs. When my husband died 9 years ago, suddenly and unexpectedly, I did the same as you and had a funeral to celebrate him with a quite humourous eulogy from his best friend. It was, mainly, a secular funeral so I had secular music played - Glenn Miller and George Gershwin, as a matter of fact, because that was OUR music. My grandson, who was incredibly close to him, was only 10 at the time but he was there. He tried so hard not to cry for his Grampa, in public, but the funeral was cathartic for him. I couldn't let him see Colin, after he had died, because the cause was meningitis and it ravages the body so, for Peter, a ceremony that celebrated his beloved Gramps was important, as it was for my children with their dad.

Funerals are for the Living. They are a necessary way of expressing grief and celebrating a life. We are all going to die one day, it's part of life. Don't hide it away.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Tinkerbelle

I didn't mind Sklinky mentioning it earlier but I wasn't going to reply.

I can't speak for any body else that is afraid of seeing a deceased body but mine is just an irrational fear, it's a phobia. Some people fear things like balloons and everybody things thats wierd. I can't explain I am just terrified, I even feel funny typing about it I am a strange one at times I know!

Lots of people go through this Tinkerbelle, it's quite common. I don’t think your strange, well maybe a little, but that what makes you, you…….

[Tinkerbelle]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Our best man's wife's balloon phobia seems to be to the extent of not even being able to be in the same pub let alone the same room as them which is a real problem for our wedding reception and we haven't found a solution to that yet.

Sorry Willow I forgot about your friends phobia of balloons I didn't intentionally reference her. My mother-in-law is also fearful of ballons but her fear is that they will burst, now to me that seems really strange. The only solution I can think of is having a balloon free area set aside for her maybe?

[Doug]

Originally Posted by West Ender

Funerals are for the Living. They are a necessary way of expressing grief and celebrating a life. We are all going to die one day, it's part of life. Don't hide it away.

These are some of the truest words I've seen on the subject......thank you for expressing them. It's not always something people like to admit.......

[Tinkerbelle]

Originally Posted by West Ender

Funerals are for the Living. They are a necessary way of expressing grief and celebrating a life. We are all going to die one day, it's part of life. Don't hide it away.

I totally agree with you West Ender, I went to the funerals celebrated and grieved but I don't have to remember my loved ones in a coffin (shudder) I still get to remember their smiling faces and how they were which comforts me. I think death and grieving is a personal experience and people deal with it individually.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Tinkerbelle

The only solution I can think of is having a balloon free area set aside for her maybe?

Excuse the slight thread wander. We planned a balloon free region where she could still see the rest of us but not have to sit near any balloons but even that it seems is too close to balloons for her to cope with. Not even sure she can manage to sit outside knowing that they are inside. I can understand a fear of them bursting but this is more than that.

Ah well, maybe we'll find some solution.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Excuse the slight thread wander. We planned a balloon free region where she could still see the rest of us but not have to sit near any balloons but even that it seems is too close to balloons for her to cope with. Not even sure she can manage to sit outside knowing that they are inside. I can understand a fear of them bursting but this is more than that.

Ah well, maybe we'll find some solution.

How about some nicely designed, subtle flags and banners instead of balloons, they can be just as effective and they don’t go bang…..

[WillowTheWhisp]

We've already got the balloons - lots of. Got them before all the phobia thing came to light. It's sort of themed.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

We've already got the balloons - lots of. Got them before all the phobia thing came to light. It's sort of themed.

Don't worry about it to much Willow, it's your day, and I have no doubt eveyone will do there best to resolve the balloon issue. Not be long now.......

[West Ender]

Willow, Doug, Tinkerbelle, you can all come to MY funeral (not for a helluva long time, I hope). I'm having Glenn Miller, Grieg and Elvis played and there will be plenty of red wine and Hollands meat pies at my wake. I will be up there on a cloud, eating a steak pudding and ready to haunt anyone who doesn't say how wonderful I am (was).

[Doug]

Originally Posted by West Ender

Willow, Doug, Tinkerbelle, you can all come to MY funeral (not for a helluva long time, I hope). I'm having Glenn Miller, Grieg and Elvis played and there will be plenty of red wine and Hollands meat pies at my wake. I will be up there on a cloud, eating a steak pudding and ready to haunt anyone who doesn't say how wonderful I am (was).

Bl**dy hell. What are you drinking girl? I’m not a lover of them to be honest there are the few occasion where I cry. I’ve seen a lot of death both good and bad and the only way I would wish anyone to die is at peace in there sleep. Stick some decent beer on the list and a box of hankies and I’ll certainly honour your passing. I an a believer in the late occupant of the earthly body being present at the wake so you might consider coming up for a Accy do be for you pop off.

[Gobsmacked]

Phobias aside I don't think it's a good thing to hide death from children. We will all die one day. We can't avoid that. It is also quite probable that at some time in our life we may see the body of a deceased person. Not everyone dies in hospital under "expected circumstances" Some die suddenly in their own homes. More often than not it is the spouse who is the first to see them. Should this be something to fear? I believe that if we bring our children up without an awareness of death and without the opportunity of seeing a corpse then they may have an unspoken fear of being the first to discover a deceased loved one.

There may also be circumstances where it is necessary to identify the body of a deceased family member. Provided they are not badly disfigured by the cause of death this should not necessarily be something to fear.

As a young child I never had the opportunity to see a dead body and the only awareness I had was of films where women screamed hysterically at the sight thus giving the impression that this was something unpleasant and horrible. In my teenage years I was the first person to see an elderly neighbour who had passed away peacefully in her sleep as I called to see if she needed any help. I was fascinated to see that she didn't look as I had assumed a dead person would, yet neither did she look like herself. It occurred to me that what was missing was her spirit or soul, her very life essence, the "thing" that was actually her and that what I was seeing was merely an empty shell which she had discarded.

On becoming a parent I made an active decision not to shield my own children from death but to make it such an accepted part of life that they would have no reason to fear.

I see nothing wrong with the media showing us images of the Pope and can understand the need some people have felt to photograph his body as it passed by them. If I have a relic at all then it must be the rosary which was blessed by him when he came to Manchester.

The church was criticised for not sharing enough information when the Pope was ill and accused of being unrealistic in continually sheilding us from the truth and not facing up to the fact that he was close to death, then at the end when they were open with details of how he was fading they were criticised for that. It's simply impossible to please everyone.

For those who have a real phobia about death it must be difficult but one day you will probably have to face up to it in one form or another and I hope that you have the strength to cope. If it is in any way reassuring I'd like to repeat that my first experience was in no way distressing.