The right to Life.......? - Page 2

Tealeaf · 20-05-2005, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by staggeringman

what without partaking in a gallon or two of holts

Yeah, by injection.

jambutty · 20-05-2005, 18:37

I see that the god of money has raised its ugly head again.

But the real debate should be about the withdrawing of food and drink as a means of allowing someone to die. A slow, drawn out and agonising death!

In a nutshell the Hippocratic Oath reads “Do NO Harm!” It seems to me that this has been forgotten in the way it was not too long ago when a woman was starved to death and it took two weeks for her to die.

So yes Margaret Pilkington we do have our values cockeyed or at least the medical profession has. Doctors are supposed to support an ill person and maintain pain free life until the natural end not aid and abet them to die because of the cost of treatment.

If you came across someone who had taken some pills to end their life and you did nothing about it, you could be prosecuted for aiding and abetting a suicide. Any medical team that sanctions the withdrawal of food and water knowing that the end result will be a long drawn out and painful death should face the full weight of the law. At the very least it is unlawful killing although I view it as murder.

The NHS would have unlimited funds available to it if our government didn’t waste our hard earned taxes on multiple layers of bureaucracy in an attempt to isolate themselves from the population and unnecessary spending.

Acrylic-bob · 21-05-2005, 07:31

The delicious Doris Karlof has some interesting things to say on this subject in this morning's Times...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...620890,00.html

lettie · 21-05-2005, 09:22

It's an interesting article AB, I have to admit that Doris has a point. I have said on various other threads that the NHS cannot cope with demand but I think we are going down the wrong road by denying terminally ill patients food and drink. There are valid cases for witholding treatments antibiotics, resuscitation etc but to deny food and fluids is tantamount to torture. As nurses we are taught that we must allow patients to die with dignity. I don't see that forcing someone to starve to death is very dignified. To feed and water terminally ill patients does not keep them alive but it allows them to be more comfortable.

I think that there will be many a nurse within the NHS that disobey these court orders. I know that I would.

garinda · 21-05-2005, 10:37

It does seem a very strange society we live in.

On one side we seem to have a bottomless pit of money to fund wars and to care for suspected terrorists and prisoners who would like to end the democracy they are enjoying in our country, and on the other hand medical treatment becomes a bit of a lottery.

Euthanasia is ilegal, yet as others have posted the withdrawl of food and water of a terminally ill patient that would like to continue treatment, seems more cruel.

I'm not religous, so instead of God l'll replace Him/Her with an Alien. If an Alien looked down on this planet, what on Earth [literally] would they think? We have the intelligence to cure diseases and prolong life, yet choose to use our intelligence to kill each other in silly little war games instead.

Mik Dickinson · 21-05-2005, 14:39

Granny C i agree with you, if anybody did that to an animal there would have been a public outcry.
Thanks T at least you are honest.

Margaret Pilkington · 21-05-2005, 17:59

Lettie is right.........I think it is not right to resus anyone who has a tenous hold on life (for whatever reason).......but to deny nourishment and fluid is torture........the NHS has a duty of care.

Many years ago I saw a medical team working to resus a guy with terminal lung cancer.......now that was surely wrong, but to deny someone who is mentally sound but whose body is useless, fluids and nourishment is wrong too.

And I have to say Tealeaf, with the greatest respect, you cannot know how you would react if you were suddenly diagnosed with a terminal and life shortening condition.
May you never know!

grego · 21-05-2005, 20:54

I think its disgusting the money that is spent keeping terrorists/murderers in prison, lethal injection springs to mind, anyway the money could be better spent, I also hate the thought of housing immigrants (not genuine cases) when we have a lot of homeless. I dont think treatment especially food/water should be denied to anyone, though I also see the point T was making.

bygum · 21-05-2005, 23:37

You have hit the nail right on its head Margaret and aggree with you 100% the world as been screwed up totaly .

G/Day from Sheila and I

pendy · 23-05-2005, 17:27

It's a difficult subject with right on both sides. However, when you consider what the NHS DOES fund, like gender reassignment surgery, it does seem we have our values a bit cockeyed. I think I would rather go quickly if only to spare my family the pain of seeing me suffer - having been there, I know how it feels.

Much more worrying is the potential, recently discussed, for refusing treatment on the basis of a person's age. If a condition is terminal, then there is little than can be done apart from making the person as comfortable as possible and limiting suffering. I would be willing to bet that all nurses know of cases where doses of opiates have been increased sufficiently to allow someone a painless, quick, and reasonably dignified exit. Not a bad idea, at that.

lettie · 23-05-2005, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by pendy

I would be willing to bet that all nurses know of cases where doses of opiates have been increased sufficiently to allow someone a painless, quick, and reasonably dignified exit. Not a bad idea, at that.

I have certainly known of this. Opiates are increased to provide pain relief and comfort to people in the terminal stages of their illnesses which is an excruciating way to die. I have never known of food and fluids being denied to these people if they are able to tolerate them. I can understand the denial of expensive forms of nutrition such as TPN, but if a person is capable of tolerating oral food and fluids then they should be assisted to do so.

Margaret Pilkington · 23-05-2005, 19:27

I have known opiates be increased........but the aim has been pain relief, NOT to hasten the end of a patients life. I have even known dying patients be rehydrated using intravenous fluids.

lindsay ormerod · 23-05-2005, 20:34

Well Margaret it looks like we will shortly have one less mass murderer to support as the papers today carried a story of Peter Sutcliffe "ballooning " to 17 stone and since he is a severe diabetic he is apparently "eating himself to death" Best news I've heard in ages,hope it's long,slow and very painful!l

Driller · 23-05-2005, 23:52

This is an interesting debate.. the right to life. I would say without doubt it is THE basic human right. What amazes me is that there is a thread on this site in which people are advocating sterilization of young girls!!! .. I apologise if I have gone slighlty off the thread but I feel it is an issue.

garinda · 24-05-2005, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driller

This is an interesting debate.. the right to life. I would say without doubt it is THE basic human right. What amazes me is that there is a thread on this site in which people are advocating sterilization of young girls!!! .. I apologise if I have gone slighlty off the thread but I feel it is an issue.

That was posted by me, and is what we call irony, perhaps they don't have it down in the part of London you moved to?

Anyway since then l've altered my tack on that issue, l think the p-ricks should have their drill bits removed and only allowed to have them reinserted when they can prove to be a useful and stable parent.