The terror in numbers.

[Acrylic-bob]

Here below, from The Sunday Times, is some indication of the scale of the problem we face in dealing with Islamofascist Fanaticism. Reading some of these figures a month ago I would have said that more needs to be done to encourage the minority populations to integrate. Reading the same figures after the events of the last couple of weeks I would have to say that the time for politically correct accommodation is over and some of our guests need to be shown the door!

In an article carried on the BBC News site there is the following quote:

"Dr Sikander, who heads Jamia Binoria in Karachi, says the Muslims have their options clearly cut out under Islam if they do not agree with the foreign policy of those countries where they are living. Jamia Binoria is credited with producing several students who later took to militancy. The founder of the now banned Jaish-e-Mohammed militant group, Maulana Masood Azhar, is also said to have attended this seminary.

Dr Sikander says that should Muslims feel that their country of residence is doing something terribly wrong, then all they can do is to leave the country.

"If an Iraqi living in London is outraged over Britain's role in what is happening in Iraq, then he should go to Iraq and fight the coalition forces there," he said.
"Nothing gives him the right to hit back at innocent civilians living in the UK."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4711003.stm



From The Sunday Times:

“According to a YouGov poll published yesterday, some 6% of British Muslims consider the attacks were justified. That equates to about 100,000 people who, while they may not be willing to carry out such acts, are willing to support those who do.
Meanwhile, one in four British Muslims — while in no way condoning the bombers’ actions — express some understanding for the feelings and motivations that drove them to commit the crimes.

The poll also reveals that some 56% say that, regardless of whether or not they sympathise with the bombers, they do comprehend why some people might carry out such acts.

Also clear from the polling is the level of alienation many British Muslims feel from the rest of society. Nearly one in five (18%) say they feel little or no loyalty to this country, and alienation levels among men, particularly young men, are more than three times higher than those among Muslim women living here.

Some 32% of respondents to the poll believed “western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to bring it to an end”. Of these, the equivalent of some 16,000 declared themselves willing to resort to violence if necessary to achieve this.



Coupled with the revelation that 52% of those interviewed believe “British political leaders don’t mean it when they talk about equality”, and that “they regard the lives of white British people as more valuable than the lives of British Muslims”, it paints a picture of a fractured society that is far from the cohesive front that the moderate British Muslim leadership and Downing Street wish to foster.

It also highlights the gulf between the moderate — and older — religious leadership and the impressionable, alienated and politically militant Muslim men to be found here.

Such young men are easy recruits for organisations such as al-Ghurabaa, which is clear about its commitment to radical Islam.

"Any Muslim that denies that terror is a part of Islam is kafir [an unbeliever],” says the statement issued by al-Ghurabaa, which argues that a ceasefire offered by Osama Bin Laden after the Madrid bombings was ignored, and that the public’s alleged silence about military involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq means it is to blame for the atrocities visited upon it.

Another, anonymous radical pamphlet believed to have emanated from London argues that Muslims are specifically prohibited from showing any sympathy for the victims of Islamic terrorism.

Such emotionless reaction has been displayed within recent weeks by Mohammed Bouyeri, the alleged killer of Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh, who in court last week looked the dead man’s mother in the eye and said: “I can’t feel for you because you are an infidel.”

The 9/11 hijackers were instructed to show no sympathy for their victims, and if necessary to slaughter them like sheep.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1706155,00.html

[chav1]

hard to reply to this without been branded a racist which is funny because it shows that they are racist towards us

[West Ender]

If so many Muslims living in this country feel alienated from British society, why are they here? Most have families still living in various parts of Asia so why don't they return? Could it be that they are not so alienated from the many benefits to be derived from living here?

I have no issues with any person because of his race, colour or creed. I welcome as my neighbour anyone who wants to live in and work for my country, respects me and my country and integrates into my society. If my society is wrong, according to his ideology, he should leave.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

"Dr Sikander, who heads Jamia Binoria in Karachi, says the Muslims have their options clearly cut out under Islam if they do not agree with the foreign policy of those countries where they are living. Jamia Binoria is credited with producing several students who later took to militancy. The founder of the now banned Jaish-e-Mohammed militant group, Maulana Masood Azhar, is also said to have attended this seminary.

Dr Sikander says that should Muslims feel that their country of residence is doing something terribly wrong, then all they can do is to leave the country.

"If an Iraqi living in London is outraged over Britain's role in what is happening in Iraq, then he should go to Iraq and fight the coalition forces there," he said.
"Nothing gives him the right to hit back at innocent civilians living in the UK."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4711003.stm

There seems to be some sort of contradiction going on here. This man is the head of Jamia Binoria. He says "Nothing gives him the right to hit back at innocent civilians living in the UK." and yet Jamia Binoria is credited with having produced militant students?

What went wrong?

If there are people living in this country who despise this country so much that they are willing to kill innocent people then they should be deported. They should not be welcome here and they certinly shouldn't be receiving any free handouts.

If people come here and are happy here and want to live in peace with the rest of us then I don't care what race creed or colour they are, they should be welcome.

How can it be considered racist to want to be rid of people who hate us?

[cashman]

Originally Posted by West Ender

I have no issues with any person because of his race, colour or creed. I welcome as my neighbour anyone who wants to live in and work for my country, respects me and my country and integrates into my society. If my society is wrong, according to his ideology, he should leave.

well said west ender agree totally.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Initially they came here as economic migrants........they prospered, many Muslims have thriving businesses.......and I do not decry that....they deserve what they have worked for, but then in the next breath they condemn the capitalist society......well, Hello......didn't they come to the Uk hoping for a better life.....and wasn't it capitalism that gave them that better life and a better education. If, now they find western society so distasteful then I respectfully suggest that they go back to the country of their descendents.

It seems to me that this country is only interested when black/asian/muslims cite racialism..........and racial practices against the indigent population......that's you and me...... are ignored.

They are allowed to practice their religion without let or hinderance......yet, in Leeds and Bradford there are Asian youths warning anyone other than their own kind off what they see as 'their' territory. I feel that they have, in many ways, marginalised themselves.
And to a great degree are responsible for how they are treated.

If I moved to the middle east what do you think my chances would be of attending a Christian Church.......? Pretty slim I think.

[jimmi5bellies]

The other day walking back from Glynn Webb with my son we was cutting through the short-cut by Asda and Milnshaw fishing lake ??. The path is sheltered by overgrown trees etc. We was half way down when suddenly a gang of 8 Asian lads aged between 16 - 25 turned up. My son asked that we turned around in wake of the recent rape of that bloke in Church Canal path by a gang of Asians and the bombings in London. I was adamant that we wouldnt turn back. Why should we have to live in fear all the time.

Got to admit i felt real on edge walking past them and was releaved when we got past them.

Its a frightening world we live in now.

[Bagpuss]

At last some of the moderate members of Accyweb are finally waking up to what is really happening in our country, the same members who only a few months ago where deducting karma from me for speaking up are now making the same statements that I was, better late than never I say.
I'm not going to give you any right wing speech or ask you to rise up against muslims just keep your eyes and ears open and continue to keep an open mind.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Bagpuss

I'm not going to give you any right wing speech or ask you to rise up against muslims just keep your eyes and ears open and continue to keep an open mind.

I should hope you don’t Mr Bagpuss. Although I am beginning to share your fears and I am sure that others will be also, I think we have to wait and hope that Blaire is willing to draw a line under this situation. I don’t think we should be kicking people out of the country unless they are preaching hatred or encouraging terrorism, and then they should be on the first plane out to the nearest country that matches their culture, no trial, no human rights period…..I think we are a long way from open hostility on the streets other than that which already exists, but it wouldn’t surprise me if things didn’t get worse if these Minority communities start preaching hostility towards us…….

[cashman]

its a small ask bagpuss,but a long way off (people keeping an open mind) most in my experience are incapable of such a thing. but a sound statement is keeping eyes and ears open.

[West Ender]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

If I moved to the middle east what do you think my chances would be of attending a Christian Church.......? Pretty slim I think.

I was in Saudi Arabia in 1983/84. My husband was working for a Lebanese company and most of the Lebanese were Christians, mostly Roman Catholics. They had a priest but he had to practice his ministry "underground", his day-job was as an engineer. They held mass in each other's homes every Sunday and it all had to be very hush-hush because, had they been found out, at the very least they would have been expelled from the country. Over Christmas all the stores sold cards, trees, decorations etc. but the cards could only say "Happy Holiday" as mention of Christianity, as in Christmas, was forbidden.

I would never advocate that this country went to such extremes but it goes to show the difference in tolerance between a Christian country and an Islamic one. I am not anti-Islam. I respect a person's right to hold whatever belief he choses but, I must be honest, the modern interpretation of that particular Faith disturbs me. When it becomes, as it seems to have, the cause célebre behind acts of terrorism it is time to rethink the our famed tolerance and to begin to weed out those who espouse antipathy to any who do not follow their ideals.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Jimmi I get nervous walking past groups of youths of any description. I know in most cases it is probably unfounded but perhaps it's because they are taller, stronger and noisier than me I find them intimidating. I don't think I could have been as brave as you and I admire you for that.

West Ender, it's good to hear about something of which someone has personal experience as you describe. At times we have held up Saudi Arabia as an example in situations such as the way they deal with criminals when pointing out how we seem to fail with our "punishments" in this country. Perhaps not such a good example to us after all.

However, how many muslims in this country come from Saudi Arabia?

If we are looking for the opposite side of the coin to Islam in Britain wouldn't it make more sense to look for Christianity in Pakistan? It isn't outlawed there and there are Pakistani born Christians. I'm not sure how many and I don't have any details but I just wanted to even up the picture of Christianity in muslim countries a bit before we are in danger of starting to demand a ban on Islam in Britain.

Having said that, I am in total agreement that all militants of whatever persuasion who incite violence against the host country be booted out PDQ. This must be the only country on earth which feeds the hand that bites it.

[Doug]

I would always hope that we in this country can show tolerance and understanding towards other religions, cultures, beliefs and peoples. However a little more attention to our immigration controls by our government wouldn’t go amiss.

[West Ender]

My sentiment exactly, Willow.

[Acrylic-bob]

Oddly enough, This story crops up in today paper. I hold no sympathy for evangelical christians but it does answer, at least partially, one of the questions raised above...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...707254,00.html

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