The Tories

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

Oh yeh i remember, whilst Scargill was a balloon,

Take yer blinkers off yeh blind get, I never said that.

My mistake I'd have called him a baffoon not a balloon

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cashman

I was always under impression that council houses were fer folk who couldn't afford a mortgage? on that basis it was folly to flog em off cheap.

Yes, I'm sure they were...but it meant that many folk who couldn't get on the property ladder(the ones who were considered poor - not usually the type helped by the tory party) were given that opportunity.
I am not saying it was right. I am responding to a question that was posed.
'did any of the Thatcher policies help the man in the street?' That was one which did......at least in the short term.

And when you consider that many of the people living in these houses, had been there for many years...they had probably paid the market value for them over the years.

It was a policy to catch votes and beggar the long term consequences...all parties are guilty of similar things.


I told myself I wasn't going to post to this thread again.......this is definitely the end of it for me. It has all beeen said...over and over and over......tediously, without it making an iota of difference to anything.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Houseboy

I do find that opinions about Thatcher tend to be divided and quite extreme but I don't think even the most blue-eyed Tory could deny that there was a great deal of "bad" going on at that time. Could I ask you though, do you, with hindsight, still agree with the privatisations? Do you think that people working hard to make a living and struggling to make ends meet as a result of those privatisations were a price worth paying for a bit of political dogma? Was the destruction of tens of thousands of peoples way of life really worth it just to prove a point?
Just for the record (in case I'm accused of bias) I have been driven away from the Labour party because of the slavish adherence to American foriegn policy. I may be back in the fold soon but at the last couple of elections I have voted (bizarely) UKIP out of desperation and partly because of my dislike/distrust of the EU.
Oh, by the way, in my last post I forgot to mention the 15% interest rates that were forcing people out of there homes and causing businesses to close in record numbers.
Come to think about it, can anyone come up with anything done in that period that worked out well for the ordinary man and woman on the street?

Privatisation wasn't just a "bit of political dogma". It lead to competition which benefited the consumer, replacing inefficient state monopolies and taking the taxpayer off the hook. Take the telephone market. Could you imagine only having the choice of BT? There'd be no reason for them to improve their service, sort out your problems with haste or provide cheap internet access. You have the choice of a large number of suppliers, allowing you to pick the one you prefer.

Politicians do not know best. They can't predict what goods and services people want. Business meets consumer demand, and business fails when it gets it wrong. When politicians decide what is best for us we end up with inefficient and expensive services that we all pay more tax for.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

My mistake I'd have called him a baffoon not a balloon

Call him what yeh want yer entitled, but aint noticed yeh condemning the damage the bitch did to ordinary working people.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

Call him what yeh want yer entitled, but aint noticed yeh condemning the damage the bitch did to ordinary working people.

It was these ordinary working people that were hell bent on briging the Government down again, like they did in 74, only it wasn't Ted Teeth this time.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Privatisation wasn't just a "bit of political dogma". It lead to competition which benefited the consumer, replacing inefficient state monopolies and taking the taxpayer off the hook. Take the telephone market. Could you imagine only having the choice of BT? There'd be no reason for them to improve their service, sort out your problems with haste or provide cheap internet access. You have the choice of a large number of suppliers, allowing you to pick the one you prefer.

Politicians do not know best. They can't predict what goods and services people want. Business meets consumer demand, and business fails when it gets it wrong. When politicians decide what is best for us we end up with inefficient and expensive services that we all pay more tax for.

...and what about the privatisation of gas and electric? Has that benefitted the consumer? Has it heck as like. It's been replaced by a cosy little cartel who routinely rip the consumer off to add to their already fat profits. What about water? Have we "the choice of a large number of suppliers"? I hadn't noticed.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

It was these ordinary working people that were hell bent on briging the Government down again, like they did in 74, only it wasn't Ted Teeth this time.

Utter tripe, it was about Pit Closures sod all else, summat torys very conveniently forget.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

Utter tripe, it was about Pit Closures sod all else, summat torys very conveniently forget.

That wasn't Scargill purpose, he used it for his own ends, him and his mate mad mick

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Privatisation wasn't just a "bit of political dogma". It lead to competition which benefited the consumer, replacing inefficient state monopolies and taking the taxpayer off the hook. Take the telephone market. Could you imagine only having the choice of BT? There'd be no reason for them to improve their service, sort out your problems with haste or provide cheap internet access. You have the choice of a large number of suppliers, allowing you to pick the one you prefer.

Politicians do not know best. They can't predict what goods and services people want. Business meets consumer demand, and business fails when it gets it wrong. When politicians decide what is best for us we end up with inefficient and expensive services that we all pay more tax for.

Oh to be so innocent and naive..inefficient state monopolies...I remember when I had an issue with water, gas or electric I could use my BT phone and get in touch with someone without going via 12 options only to reach an Indian with little grasp of English.

I could even go down to the Electric Showroom or Gas Board and see someone in person about my complaint.

I once had a problem with British Gas that took me 3 years to get resolved because I had to deal with the email/telephone complaints system instead of being able to speak face to face

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

...and what about the privatisation of gas and electric? Has that benefitted the consumer? Has it heck as like. It's been replaced by a cosy little cartel who routinely rip the consumer off to add to their already fat profits. What about water? Have we "the choice of a large number of suppliers"? I hadn't noticed.

Yes there are problems. The privatisations that happened haven't turned into some utopian system that can do no wrong. It is better than the old system though. Do you honestly trust politicians to not rake it in and funnel the proceeds into their next pet project.

There's no point in private industry existing if there isn't some form of effective competition. The current energy market clearly needs to be looked at. Unilateral price rises aside, it's incredibly difficult to work out who is actually the cheapest for the amount of energy you use. They can all get away with increasing their prices when it's not clear who to go with. Ofgem, the energy regulator, needs to enforce a simplification of tariffs so that it's crystal clear to consumers.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

That wasn't Scargill purpose, he used it for his own ends, him and his mate mad mick

No-ones disputing the stupidity n ego of Scargill, what is in dispute is the damage that cow caused to the british public, yet idiots refuse to acknowledge the fact.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Oh to be so innocent and naive..inefficient state monopolies...I remember when I had an issue with water, gas or electric I could use my BT phone and get in touch with someone without going via 12 options only to reach an Indian with little grasp of English.

I could even go down to the Electric Showroom or Gas Board and see someone in person about my complaint.

I once had a problem with British Gas that took me 3 years to get resolved because I had to deal with the email/telephone complaints system instead of being able to speak face to face

You've got to be kidding me. You would not be able to do that today if it was still nationalised.

Choose a phone company that doesn't have overseas call centres if that's your gripe. That's the beauty, you have the choice.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Yes there are problems. The privatisations that happened haven't turned into some utopian system that can do no wrong. It is better than the old system though. Do you honestly trust politicians to not rake it in and funnel the proceeds into their next pet project.

There's no point in private industry existing if there isn't some form of effective competition. The current energy market clearly needs to be looked at. Unilateral price rises aside, it's incredibly difficult to work out who is actually the cheapest for the amount of energy you use. They can all get away with increasing their prices when it's not clear who to go with. Ofgem, the energy regulator, needs to enforce a simplification of tariffs so that it's crystal clear to consumers.

No, they haven't turned into some utopian system that can do no wrong". What they have turned into are outright profiteers who are solely concerned with how much money they can rake in from the long-suffering British public whilst putting as little as possible back in in terms of improving their infrastructure and service. And you're telling me that's "better than the old system"? Utter rubbish. Gas, electric and water were all more affordable when they were treated as public amenities and the service was certainly no worse.

And what about transport? Rail users are crowded into grubby, dilapidated carriages and forced to pay prices that are the highest in Europe for the privilege of doing so. As for buses, at one time this borough had a fleet and service that was one of the best in Lancashire. Then Thatcher decided to privatise and now we have a transport "system" (for want of a better word) more suited to a third world country. And you call that "better"?

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by andrewb

You've got to be kidding me. You would not be able to do that today if it was still nationalised.

Choose a phone company that doesn't have overseas call centres if that's your gripe. That's the beauty, you have the choice.

Erm...I guess I was too obtuse for the tory mindset... that is exactly what I did when it was nationalised, went and spoke to someone in a shop in the town centre using a bus that was roadworthy, driven by a driver in a uniform that instilled trust and confidence...when it was privatised it took me 3 years to resolve using internet and phone because I kept having to explain the problem to different people over and over and over and over ad infinitum.

Although to be fair I didn't have to travel to a town centre full of drunks on a death trap minibus driven by a lunatic, so the swings and roundabouts argument could apply

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

No-ones disputing the stupidity n ego of Scargill, what is in dispute is the damage that cow caused to the british public, yet idiots refuse to acknowledge the fact.

It was because of Scargill that so much damage was done in the first place but you won't except that