The Tories

[cmonstanley]

the truth is coming out now according to this story in the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...or-alternative

[Alan Varrechia]

Just about says it all.

[Houseboy]

Originally Posted by Less

Well, so far you don't impress me much, I may not be a Tory but, I haven't been overchuffed with Labour's attempt either, I would rather call you a simpleton than an Allie, no insult intended unless of course you are able to think.

Pardon? You would rather call me a simpleton? I suggest before you start judging people's intelligence you should learn how to spell a simple word like "ally".
And what was the last bit about, "no insult intended unless you are able to think"? Perhaps you could explain to this poor "simpleton" exactly what you mean there?
No insult taken by the way.

[Houseboy]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Get out of here, brown was a prat as Chancellor and Prime minister a useless prat at that, who always went missing when the the chips were down, Blair only felt like a breath of fresh air, until he was rumbled and the shine wore off, he couldn't had over to Brown fast enough when he knew this country was going down to tubes fast than the Titanic

I agree with you totally about Blair Jay, as you can see from my post, but even many Tories agree that Brown presided over a very good period for this country, economically. The facts speak for themselves, Jay, record low interest rates, low unemployment (compared to the Thatcher years and even now), with even the Tory press grudgingly admitting that things were doing well. Yes, things went downhill toward the end but I can't help thinking what we are going to be left with when this lot go at (probably) the next election. I'm sure their wealthy pals will still be laughing all the way to the bank though.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Houseboy

I agree with you totally about Blair Jay, as you can see from my post, but even many Tories agree that Brown presided over a very good period for this country, economically. The facts speak for themselves, Jay, record low interest rates, low unemployment (compared to the Thatcher years and even now), with even the Tory press grudgingly admitting that things were doing well. Yes, things went downhill toward the end but I can't help thinking what we are going to be left with when this lot go at (probably) the next election. I'm sure their wealthy pals will still be laughing all the way to the bank though.

When Labour came to power they inherited the best economic outlook of any incoming government in history, that's why Brown kept the Tories spending plans in place for two years after taking office, it was only he decided to "go it alone" that things started to go tits up, and they left office with the countries finances in ruins, and even laughed about

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by jaysay

When Labour came to power they inherited the best economic outlook of any incoming government in history, that's why Brown kept the Tories spending plans in place for two years after taking office, it was only he decided to "go it alone" that things started to go tits up, and they left office with the countries finances in ruins, and even laughed about

Total rubbish..there were still over 3 million unemployed in 1997...and this blokes got some cheek..this government have cut benefits for thousands of genuine invalids over the last two years.

[Mancie]

Why did 80,000 people boo george osborne at the paraympics?.... because that's capacity crowd

[Houseboy]

I'd like to throw a genuine question out here. I am honestly baffled as to why any "working class" person (sorry for an old fashioned term but it seems to fit) would ever want to vote Tory? We can go on for months arguing in circles about politics, it's what people do, and I know that I am not going to convince a Tory that socialism is good (my father-in-law is a total Tory but I still love him greatly, as was my own father) but I have asked this question many times in the past in conversation but never really got a satisfactory answer.
My personal life experience when it comes to politics is that with the Tories in power we usually have high unemployment, high interest rates and almost invariably some form of taxation hike (usually VAT these days) to pay for tax cuts to the already wealthy. We also quite often get restrictions on workers rights accompanied by some form of pay restraints "below inflation" whilst allowing companies (including utilities) to raise prices to whatever degree they wish, regardless of inflation. It doesn't take Einstien to work out that if workers continually accept pay rises below inflation that said workers will continually and progressively be worse off, year on year. The same cannot be said of blue chip companies, announcing "record profits" on an almost annual basis.
We now, of course, have the privatised industries who control life-essential commodities putting the "desires" of shareholders before the "needs" of customers. We are also now suffering a chronic shortage of affordable housing due to the Tory obsession with selling council houses in the eighties (the reason given at the time was to give people the opportunity to own them, the real reason being let's get these properties off our hands). There is now an incredible amount said about the numbers of people scrounging on the social and how we must do all we can to reduce this expenditure (I actually agree that something must be done on that score) but hardly anything is done by the Tories about plugging the legal loopholes (and indeed the illegal) that allow the wealthy (both individual and corporate) to pay little or nothing in income tax, which costs the country far more than any social security bill.
The Tories hate the NHS (they would scrap it if they could but it would be political suicide). They don't seem to be in love with the idea of state schooling (it's another expenditure they would rather do without). They have historically never been in love with the idea of democracy (they opposed votes for women, they opposed the scrapping of the dual voting system which gave businessmen two votes at an election, they opposed the reducing of the voting age to eighteen and Ted Heath in 1964 was the first Tory leader to be elected to the post democratically). In recent years (late seventies onwards) they have actively promoted greed and self-interest.
I could list many more examples of Tory contempt for the "ordinary" person but I think you get my drift. If anyone can address this genuine and honest question I promise I will read it without prejudice (my political affiliations are far more wide-ranging than might appear).
Of course the Labour party are far from perfect, which is why I have distanced myself from them in recent years, but the Tories do seem to have an open and transparent contempt for most ordinary people that I find it difficult to understand (genuinely) why anyone but the reasonably well-off would ever vote for them.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Houseboy

I'd like to throw a genuine question out here. I am honestly baffled as to why any "working class" person (sorry for an old fashioned term but it seems to fit) would ever want to vote Tory? We can go on for months arguing in circles about politics, it's what people do, and I know that I am not going to convince a Tory that socialism is good (my father-in-law is a total Tory but I still love him greatly, as was my own father) but I have asked this question many times in the past in conversation but never really got a satisfactory answer.
My personal life experience when it comes to politics is that with the Tories in power we usually have high unemployment, high interest rates and almost invariably some form of taxation hike (usually VAT these days) to pay for tax cuts to the already wealthy. We also quite often get restrictions on workers rights accompanied by some form of pay restraints "below inflation" whilst allowing companies (including utilities) to raise prices to whatever degree they wish, regardless of inflation. It doesn't take Einstein to work out that if workers continually accept pay rises below inflation that said workers will continually and progressively be worse off, year on year. The same cannot be said of blue chip companies, announcing "record profits" on an almost annual basis.
We now, of course, have the privatised industries who control life-essential commodities putting the "desires" of shareholders before the "needs" of customers. We are also now suffering a chronic shortage of affordable housing due to the Tory obsession with selling council houses in the eighties (the reason given at the time was to give people the opportunity to own them, the real reason being let's get these properties off our hands). There is now an incredible amount said about the numbers of people scrounging on the social and how we must do all we can to reduce this expenditure (I actually agree that something must be done on that score) but hardly anything is done by the Tories about plugging the legal loopholes (and indeed the illegal) that allow the wealthy (both individual and corporate) to pay little or nothing in income tax, which costs the country far more than any social security bill.
The Tories hate the NHS (they would scrap it if they could but it would be political suicide). They don't seem to be in love with the idea of state schooling (it's another expenditure they would rather do without). They have historically never been in love with the idea of democracy (they opposed votes for women, they opposed the scrapping of the dual voting system which gave businessmen two votes at an election, they opposed the reducing of the voting age to eighteen and Ted Heath in 1964 was the first Tory leader to be elected to the post democratically). In recent years (late seventies onwards) they have actively promoted greed and self-interest.
I could list many more examples of Tory contempt for the "ordinary" person but I think you get my drift. If anyone can address this genuine and honest question I promise I will read it without prejudice (my political affiliations are far more wide-ranging than might appear).
Of course the Labour party are far from perfect, which is why I have distanced myself from them in recent years, but the Tories do seem to have an open and transparent contempt for most ordinary people that I find it difficult to understand (genuinely) why anyone but the reasonably well-off would ever vote for them.

Easy answer with out read past the first line because Labour are a myth, and anybody who thinks it just the rich and well heeled who elect Tory governments is very much mistaken, ordinary working people elect Tory governments which speaks volumes about the so called party of the working man, that's why they wrote the new verse to the red flag "the working class can kiss my ass I've got the bosses job at last" or you can change that to MP if you like, plus I've never suffered from envy.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Houseboy

I'd like to throw a genuine question out here. I am honestly baffled as to why any "working class" person (sorry for an old fashioned term but it seems to fit) would ever want to vote Tory? We can go on for months arguing in circles about politics,

Had you read this thread from the beginning you would know that, that question has already been asked and answered.

Perhaps we are going around in circles because some folk just can't be bothered?

[Houseboy]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Easy answer with out read past the first line because Labour are a myth, and anybody who thinks it just the rich and well heeled who elect Tory governments is very much mistaken, ordinary working people elect Tory governments which speaks volumes about the so called party of the working man, that's why they wrote the new verse to the red flag "the working class can kiss my ass I've got the bosses job at last" or you can change that to MP if you like, plus I've never suffered from envy.

The question was, Jay, why do working class vote for them, not if they vote for them. But I suppose if you haven't read past the first line you wouldn't know that, and this from the person who suggested that I should "keep my gob shut" on another post because I hadn't read everything on it. You haven't even read my post. You haven't answered the question either.

[Houseboy]

Originally Posted by Less

Had you read this thread from the beginning you would know that, that question has already been asked and answered.

Perhaps we are going around in circles because some folk just can't be bothered?

I haven't read this thread from "beginning to end" and nor will I do so (as I have pointed out to you before). As for your own comments on my posts (which are becoming increasingly predictable and boring) as the man siad, "If you don't have anything to say, don't say it.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Houseboy

I haven't read this thread from "beginning to end" and nor will I do so (as I have pointed out to you before). As for your own comments on my posts (which are becoming increasingly predictable and boring) as the man siad, "If you don't have anything to say, don't say it.

Boring and predictable as a guy that knows everything without bothering to read what has been said before? What you repeat in your questions can be sorted by you taking time to read what others have already offered.

However why should you? You obviously know best and don't need to get on with the rest of the site.

[garinda]

I think my working class grandmother, brought up in an ardently socialist household, and whose husband had beeen killed in the war, and with two small children to bring up, did so because she hadn't a pot to pish in, and felt that war widows were largely ignored until Thatcher addressed this situation.

[garinda]

Stupid question anyway.

Like asking why some of the middle and upper classes voted for Blair, and not adhere to the labels some would attach to them, and assume they were Tory voters.

Why?

Firstly, because they we're free to vote for whovever.

Secondly, they, like many others of us, were stupid.