The Tories

[Boeing Guy]

Originally Posted by Houseboy

I see Cameron embarrassed himself in the US last night on the late show. David Letterman asked him a few "British History" questions and he struggled. How can anyone not know that Magna Carta means Great Charter? I thought we all learned that at school? He's a politician for Gods sake.

I was under the impression that David Blunkett (remember him?) Abolished it along with the other Civil Liberties we lost all in the name of 'terrorism'

Copied from Wikipedia, (sorry about that)

• Human Rights Act 1998, for the first time this allowed direct appeal in British courts to be made on the basis of the European Convention on Human Rights. It preserves Parliamentary sovereignty, because courts may not strike down democratically decided laws, they can only issue a "declaration of incompatibility" (s.4). Judges, when interpreting legislation, may also presume that Parliament intended not to derogate from Convention rights (s.3). It is a precondition of a claim to the Strasbourg court that a claimant has exhausted the domestic legal system's avenues for appeal. The main reason for incorporation, and justification from advocates and the Government was to save time and cost. Other countries, such as Germany and France have their own standards, but all follow and stay conformity with the ECHR. Similarly, the ECHR is drawn from the traditions of every member state, and acts as a method for maintaining minimum standards on which there is general consensus. Despite its controversy, this may be viewed as a uniquely British measure, especially given the fact that the Convention was drafted under the direction of the British government.

• Terrorism Act 2000, extended the limit to 7 days detention without charge for terrorist suspects. It also allows terrorist organisations to be banned. Sixty groups have to date been outlawed. The Act also introduced a broad definition of "terrorism" under s.1. The stop and search powers in the Act were used to search protesters at an arms trade fair in Canary Wharf, including a Ph.D. student and a journalist who took legal action as a result. The police action was held to be lawful in R (Gillan) v Commissioner for the Metropolitan Police [2006] UKHL 12.
• Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, allows the government full surveillance powers of all kinds of communication. The current rate is 30 warrants being issued a week. In the 15 months from July 2005 to October 2006, 2407 warrants were issued.
• Civil Contingencies Act 2004, allows the government, for an "emergency", to deploy armed forces anywhere in the country during peace time (cf. Bill of Rights 1689). It also allows property to be sequestrated, for an "emergency" with or without compensation anywhere (cf. Prot. 1, Art.1 ECHR).
• Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005, created an offence of inciting religious hatred, an advanced notification scheme for protests up to 1 kilometre from Parliament. cf Blum v Director for Public Prosecutions.

• Anti-Terrorism Crime and Security Act 2001, in response to the destruction of the NYC World Trade Center on 9/11, the government passed legislation allowing indefinite detention without trial for non-British nationals suspected of committing terrorist offences, but without enough evidence for an actual trial (cf. Magna Carta, Habeas Corpus Act 1679). When passing Acts of Parliament, under the HRA 1998 the Minister has to make a "statement of compatibility" with the Convention. What they did was to send notice of derogation from the right to a fair trial, Art.6 ECHR. Art.15 ECHR is the derogation provision, which says "In time of war or other public emergency threatening the life of the nation" a member can derogate "to the extent strictly required by the exigencies of the situation". The minister then declared when passing the 2001 Act that it was (with the derogation sent) compatible with the HRA 1998.

• Criminal Justice Act 2003, abrogated double jeopardy in cases with "new and compelling evidence".

• A and Others v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2004] UKHL 17, the majority of the House of Lords decided that the detention without trial under the ATCSA 2001 was discriminatory to non-British nationals, and therefore incompatible under Art.14 ECHR. A declaration of incompatibility was issued under s.4 HRA 1998. Lord Hoffmann was the only dissenting judge to hold that the whole detention without trial idea was incompatible with the right to a trial under Art.6, and that the derogation was unacceptable, because there was no "threat to the life of the nation". He argued strongly that it would be wrong to suggest, with the majority's view that discrimination was the problem, that the government should be allowed to lock up all Britons alike.

• Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005, the government in response to A's case passed this allows the Home Secretary to impose control orders on any British citizen. Anybody suspected of terrorist related activities by the Home Secretary, but without any kind of trial, can be electronically tagged, monitored, be restricted from making phone calls, using the internet, be banned from certain kinds of work, can be restricted from going certain places, have one's passport revoked and be under a duty to report to the police. The control order system was held disproportionate in Secretary of State for the Home Department v JJ [2007] UKHL 45. The system was declared incompatible, because there was no derogation. However Lord Brown stated that if a suspect was left with eight hours' liberty a day, then it would have been acceptable.

• Terrorism Act 2006, following the bombings in London on the 7th of July, this legislation allows for people suspected of terrorist offences to be detained without charge for up to 28 days. The Criminal Justice Act 2003 had extended the time to 14 days. The government had initially proposed a limit of 90 days, saying this was on the recommendation of the police, and citing support from opinion polls. Opposition among MPs saw the first defeat for the Blair government; the Conservative amendment of 28 days detention without charge being accepted. The act also created a new offence of "glorifying terrorism".

• Austin v Metropolitan Police Commissioner [2007] EWCA Civ 989, Court of Appeal rejects a charge of false imprisonment and an Art.5 ECHR claim for police holding May Day protestors in Oxford Circus in 2001.

• Counter-Terrorism Bill 2008 sought to extend the number of days detention without charge to 42 days and to allow the Home Secretary to require an inquest to be established without a jury in secret if they deems it to be in the public interest, the interest of an overseas treaty partner or in the interest of national security. David Davis MP, a Conservative politician and Shadow Home Secretary at the time, resigned his parliamentary seat in June 2008 in protest over the proposed extension to detention with charge. His resignation forced a by-election, which he contested and won on a civil liberties platform. Neither Labour nor the Liberal Democrats stood a candidate.

[Guinness]

[cmonstanley]

well well heres one that really takes the biscuit.this tory lot are unbelievable.has there been another any mp with two names rather been two faced Grant Shapps denies 'double life' accusations despite business alter ego - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

well well heres one that really takes the biscuit.this tory lot are unbelievable.has there been another any mp with two names rather been two faced Grant Shapps denies 'double life' accusations despite business alter ego - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

Well its only like you your alter ego is Cmonstanley

[lasjohnward]

What makes me sick to the stomach is listening to working class people lining up with the Tories or the Labour party to slag each other off, wake up for God's sake both promote Capitalism which will never benefit anyone other than the rich.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by lasjohnward

What makes me sick to the stomach is listening to working class people lining up with the Tories or the Labour party to slag each other off, wake up for God's sake both promote Capitalism which will never benefit anyone other than the rich.

Oh no! A member of the Church Liberation Front.

Power to the People!

[lasjohnward]

Wow! a political philosopher, not much of a considered response though is it?

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by lasjohnward

Wow! a political philosopher, not much of a considered response though is it?

It's the sort of response that befits a third-rate, hackneyed cliche like you've just come out with.

[lasjohnward]

It's interesting that you should feel that voicing any opposition to current politics in this country is a hackneyed cliche, however I reserve the right to express my opinion and applaud your willingness to engage in a debate in such a measured way.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by lasjohnward

It's interesting that you should feel that voicing any opposition to current politics in this country is a hackneyed cliche, however I reserve the right to express my opinion and applaud your willingness to engage in a debate in such a measured way.

Yer entitled to yer opinion, its interesting also that you obviously aint read many political threads on here before opening yer gob, still thats nowt new.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by lasjohnward

It's interesting that you should feel that voicing any opposition to current politics in this country is a hackneyed cliche, however I reserve the right to express my opinion and applaud your willingness to engage in a debate in such a measured way.

Ha ha ha, what a pompous get you are! If you'd been paying attention for the three years you've been on here, you'd be aware that I and many others are well hacked off with Tories and Labour. As far as I'm concerned, we should vote for UKIP to put the wind up the big two and make them heed our wishes on a referendum on Europe, amongst other things.

You're not a member of the Socialist Workers Party are you? You sound remarkably like the ones I regularly argue with in Manchester city centre.

[cashman]

Waste of time Wyn, Its the Tooting Popular Front Reincarnated.

[lasjohnward]

Yes you are absolutely correct I haven't read any political threads on here, what I have done is engaged in real political debate at the Oxford Union and shared a picket line with the South Wales miners in 1984. Iv'e been present when this system that we live under has tried to shut the gobs of working people at Orgreave. No wonder then that if this is what passes for political debate in Accrington that the investment bankers go unpunished and the rest of us pay for their greed. Thanks for the opportunity to hear your views they have been very revealing.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by lasjohnward

Yes you are absolutely correct I haven't read any political threads on here, what I have done is engaged in real political debate at the Oxford Union and shared a picket line with the South Wales miners in 1984. Iv'e been present when this system that we live under has tried to shut the gobs of working people at Orgreave. No wonder then that if this is what passes for political debate in Accrington that the investment bankers go unpunished and the rest of us pay for their greed. Thanks for the opportunity to hear your views they have been very revealing.

You're welcome. See you on the barricades, comrade.

[cmonstanley]

NHS nurse cuts: Heath Service re-hires hundreds of nurses because the cutbacks have put patients at risk - Mirror Online how many more mistakes are they going to make ohh wait a minute this is their ideological plan, kill off the poor they are only oiks so even using private firms doesnt fix it Serco takeover of NHS pathology labs 'led to clinical and financial failures' | Society | The Guardian serco mmm hedge fund .i wonder who is the major shareholder is yep no leave for you at the olympics as another hedge fund cocks it up,but dont worry youll soon have plebty of time as we consign you to the scrap heap. ohh by the way where is david cameron ahh yes using taxpayers money to do a favour for one of his tory donor mates IoS exclusive: Cameron in crony row over Brazil factory - UK Politics - UK - The Independent Almost 6,000 fewer nurses in NHS since election: figures - Telegraph