The Tories

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Whilst I agree in principle the problem with this strategy is that it would be the majority of thinking voters that vote for UKIP and they would, in all probability, be tory voters. If that happens then it is more than likely that we would have another Labour Government. Should that happen we would be back into borrow and spend mode and 5 years further on we would be back into a drastic recovery situation once again with no money left in the pot.

Ya Barrie, Labour had the cheek to send Leam Bern on the Breakfast News this morning, he didn't seem to like it when Bill Turnbull reminded him about the note he left on his desk went Labour were kick out in 2010 "There's no money left we've spent it all" Labour always have the answers in opposition but fall a long, long way short in office

[Margaret Pilkington]

That is true of all parties when in opposition...they can say what they want it won't ever be tested......because when they do come to power, how many times do they shift the legislation that was decried by them when they were in opposition?

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Whilst I agree in principle the problem with this strategy is that it would be the majority of thinking voters that vote for UKIP and they would, in all probability, be tory voters. If that happens then it is more than likely that we would have another Labour Government. Should that happen we would be back into borrow and spend mode and 5 years further on we would be back into a drastic recovery situation once again with no money left in the pot.

Have serious doubts about this statement, reason being i know more Lab voters than Tory, that are likely to vote U.K.I.P. Also yer inference is labour voters are stupid.

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

You keep banging on about this Less, there are thousands of people on benefits who quite frankly shouldn't be on benefits, dole yes sickness benefits no, but sickness benefit opens all the doors. The trouble is all governments of any colour know this but until now nobody has dared to do anything about it, £1 in every £3 spent by government is on some kind of benefit or another and is escalating fast, so you suggest we should just do nothing at all just sit back don't ask questions and everything's right with the world. The average family income is around £26,000 a year, this is now a ceiling on what can be claimed on benefit, but this is wrong, I'm sure you know at least one person who is pulling a fast one, the question is should they be allowed to get away with it or not, you seem to think they should

Yes, and I'll keep banging on about a mean system that attacks the vulnerable.
And yes, I will keep mentioning the fact that you had 20 years of assistance that you consider no-one else should be given. So either give it all back or allow other genuine cases the same care that was given to you.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

Yes, and I'll keep banging on about a mean system that attacks the vulnerable.
And yes, I will keep mentioning the fact that you had 20 years of assistance that you consider no-one else should be given. So either give it all back or allow other genuine cases the same care that was given to you.

The genuine cases will STILL get the care they need its the feckless that feign illness that need to be weeded out, but you seem to think its okay just let um carry on and doing nout about it. I've never had any problem people claiming when they are entitled to health benefits I've even helped people to fill out the forms, but when you see people only using walking sticks and wheelchairs when going to the DHSS offices or the doctors, there's something not quite right, yet you think nothing should be done

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

The genuine cases will STILL get the care they need

Yer talking utter balls yon n yeh damn well know it. we all know the twisters need rooting out, thats beyond question. Yer defending the indefensible saying that, n if yeh honestly believe thats happening, i never had yeh down as stupid.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by cashman

Have serious doubts about this statement, reason being i know more Lab voters than Tory, that are likely to vote U.K.I.P. Also yer inference is labour voters are stupid.

It is up to you whether you get it wrong by trying to read between the lines. I know quite a few Labour supporters who would vote Labour even if a donkey was the candidate - no slur on DinG intended

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

It is up to you whether you get it wrong by trying to read between the lines. I know quite a few Labour supporters who would vote Labour even if a donkey was the candidate - no slur on DinG intended

Theres those people in both party's, only a fool would think otherwise.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

Yer talking utter balls yon n yeh damn well know it. we all know the twisters need rooting out, thats beyond question. Yer defending the indefensible saying that, n if yeh honestly believe thats happening, i never had yeh down as stupid.

Well just how do they go about sorting the cheats out then, hopping they just quit on there own account, I see a guy every day uses a walking stick, he can't remember which hand to use it in, sticks it under his arm while he carries his heavy shopping in from his mobility car, before he takes the dog for an half an hour walk. The previous Government threatened to reform the benefit system, unfortunately they didn't manage to get round to it, so what do we do carry on with a system which isn't fit for purpose, or do something about it.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well just how do they go about sorting the cheats out then, hopping they just quit on there own account, I see a guy every day uses a walking stick, he can't remember which hand to use it in, sticks it under his arm while he carries his heavy shopping in from his mobility car, before he takes the dog for an half an hour walk. The previous Government threatened to reform the benefit system, unfortunately they didn't manage to get round to it, so what do we do carry on with a system which isn't fit for purpose, or do something about it.

So yeh obviously agree wi the genuine suffering as long as it sorts out the twisters, I expected better from you.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

So yeh obviously agree wi the genuine suffering as long as it sorts out the twisters, I expected better from you.

that's not the case and you know it, your saying that everybody has had their benefits stopped that we now have a benefit free country were nobody gets sod all, sorry you know that isn't so, not even close, the welfare bill is over £100 billion and has been rising at a great rate of knots that ain't sustainable in any context, what didn't help the situation was the open door policy of the last government, like I've said before people coming here should be able to support themselves not make their way to the nearest DHSS office, if they come from within the EU they should only be entitled to the same benefits payable in there home country and they should get the bill for it from us, but until we pull out of the EU nothings going to happen

[Margaret Pilkington]

to be fair Cashy, I don't think that is what he said.
It is obvious that there are people who should not be on the incapacity/invalidity benefit because when it was proposed that they attend medical interviews many of them voluntarily gave up the benefit in favour of a lower paid benefit...and some even opted to find work........and yes...before you tell me that these medical interviews are unkind, unfair or whatever label you want to hang on them........we cannot keep paying those who could work(in some capacity) to stay at home.

One of my friends is a midwife in Rochdale...her caseload includes families on one of the estates where only a minority work...so people like us....you and me Cashy, are paying for them to stay at home.
I do not mind giving those in genuine need a helping hand...but we, in this country seem to give to everybody, whether they have paid into the pot or not.
Surely this cannot be good fiscal sense...and before you tell me it is not the claimants fault, it is the fault of the system.....I know.
governments in the past have just tinkered with the edges of the problem...none of them have had the gonads to sort it out because it isn't a vote winner .
The whole system needs to be reformed........benefits should not be a way of life, but they should be a helping hand to tide you over the tough times...but then those claiming benefits must take some responsibility for being honest too(or is that just expecting too much).

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Nope..the tories started the privatisation ball rolling long before the last shower of muppets...but this isn't a blame game..yes the last lot couldn't organise the proverbial in a brewery but neither can this bunch of buffoons.

Using the 13 year argument is becoming tedious, we all know that Blair, Brown and the associated spin doctors like that dingle Campbell totally mismanaged the running of the country...but this current mish-mash coalition of numpties are turning the screw so tight they are stripping the thread.

I think most of us agree that the last Labour government sucked...and that this lot are no better...and that current Labour policies are offering us nothing new or radical...UKIP are a one trick pony..but if they put up a candidate, my kiss is going in their box because the rest of them need to realise that the electorate have had enough of career politicians, stupid one upmanship games and their total apathy to voters wishes until election time!!

If you read this BBC news story it says that the last Labour Government started the search and rescue privatisation BBC News - Bristow Group to take over UK search and rescue from RAF

[cashman]

Originally Posted by cashman

So yeh obviously agree wi the genuine suffering as long as it sorts out the twisters, I expected better from you.

Originally Posted by jaysay

that's not the case and you know it, your saying that everybody has had their benefits stopped that we now have a benefit free country were nobody gets sod all, sorry you know that isn't so, not even close, the welfare bill is over £100 billion and has been rising at a great rate of knots that ain't sustainable in any context, what didn't help the situation was the open door policy of the last government, like I've said before people coming here should be able to support themselves not make their way to the nearest DHSS office, if they come from within the EU they should only be entitled to the same benefits payable in there home country and they should get the bill for it from us, but until we pull out of the EU nothings going to happen

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

to be fair Cashy, I don't think that is what he said.
It is obvious that there are people who should not be on the incapacity/invalidity benefit because when it was proposed that they attend medical interviews many of them voluntarily gave up the benefit in favour of a lower paid benefit...and some even opted to find work........and yes...before you tell me that these medical interviews are unkind, unfair or whatever label you want to hang on them........we cannot keep paying those who could work(in some capacity) to stay at home.

One of my friends is a midwife in Rochdale...her caseload includes families on one of the estates where only a minority work...so people like us....you and me Cashy, are paying for them to stay at home.
I do not mind giving those in genuine need a helping hand...but we, in this country seem to give to everybody, whether they have paid into the pot or not.
Surely this cannot be good fiscal sense...and before you tell me it is not the claimants fault, it is the fault of the system.....I know.
governments in the past have just tinkered with the edges of the problem...none of them have had the gonads to sort it out because it isn't a vote winner .
The whole system needs to be reformed........benefits should not be a way of life, but they should be a helping hand to tide you over the tough times...but then those claiming benefits must take some responsibility for being honest too(or is that just expecting too much).

How else am i supposed to interpret it? I have said many times the twisters need sorting n i am also well aware of a disabled child, who,s mam has been told aint disabled end of story, n i am am damn sure jaysay knows who n what i am referring too.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I don't know how you are supposed to interpret it Cashy, I can only say how I interpeted it........but for every one of those who steal benefit(because they are being dishonest about their capabilities) when they should not have it, there are those who do need it and are having it stolen from them by those who would live off the earnings of others. It is the system which is at fault.......so the system needs to be changed. This has long been recognised, but no party has the guts to do it

What are the solutions? The solutions are that a root and branch reform is needed...how that is done - well, I don't know. Except, I do know that those who have paid nothing in should be severely limited on what they can claim.

People are keen on their rights, but less keen on their responsibilities.

Was there the same welfare state when you and I were growing up Cashy......NO.
Were times tough back then too....YES.
And I'm not saying because I lived through it, that others must do so too...all I am saying, is that it cannot be right for those on benefits to be better off than those who are working........and I know that some people on benefits are in genuine need...they will continue to be so until the whole sorry mess is sorted out.