The Tories

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Well Neil, I think you are probably too young to remember the UK before the welfare state became a way of life...in fact I know you are!

I knew I always liked you

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

This is the problem, those with any ideas are not in the place to make them work...and those with no idea are in the POW...smugly watching, while we all struggle.

I have some ideas.
1) stop paying people who have not paid into the system.
2) Stop sending money abroad as foreign aid to support countries who use the money in nefarious ways
3) Any aid money that is given, is to be spent on services/products that originate in the UK.
4) stop paying the vast sums of money into the EU.
5) close the porous Border - count people in and count them out.
6)Foreign criminals deported once they are pronounced guilty and put on a plane back to where they came from.....no messing, no appeals.
7) close the tax loopholes that allow corporations to legally dodge paying their dues here - if they don't like it show them the door. the niche in the market that they leave can be taken up by a British company.
8) Stop paying benefits to the parents of children who do not even reside in this country.
9) cut red tape for businesses.
10) Penalise the banks who do not lend(providing that they have first sought out customers who are not going to default)

I'm sure some of you could think of more ...and probably better ones too.....but those are mine.

11) Stop Blaming People That Honestly Need Benefits and pick Only On The Dishonest!

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Neil

Does that apply to anyone in the world/EU or just those that are here now?
How do you define those that "deserve help through no fault of own"

Well if yeh can't define that yer thick.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Less....there is no need to shout, and where I have I blamed the people who need benefits?(unless, of course, you consider those who come here purely to claim benefits here rather than in their own country and then live as cheaply as possible and send those benefits home - boosting their economy...and those who claim for children who do not even live here....you think that is right?)
I have stated quite clearly that benefits are a helping hand, but should not be seen as a way of life which is what some claimants seem to assume.

How do you sort out the dishonest if there is no auditing/overseeing/ control of the benefits system?

The benefits system need an overhaul...a reform, but everyone who is on benefits, for whatever reason has a vested interest......and everyone thinks their case is special and should not be touched, but no-one considers where the money to pay these benefits is coming from...and if you speak your mind, you are seen to bashing the poor, the vulnerable and the disabled.
So the result of this is that we keep on keeping on, and the bill gets bigger...eventually the pot will run out and then no-one will get anything. The poor, the disabled, the vulnerable will all be in the same boat....not a pot to pee in.


When that happens, there will be people saying why didn't we sort it out sooner?
The reason is simple........it wins no votes.....in fact it loses votes

[Margaret Pilkington]

Like Cashy...I say it as I see it......and often what I am saying, others are thinking but are too shy/cautious/kind/generous to put it into words

[Neil]

Originally Posted by cashman

Well if yeh can't define that yer thick.

I was asking for your definition. Its easy to say give it to them that need it, we all agree with that. What's hard is writing a definition that can then be applied to everyone

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Neil

I was asking for your definition. Its easy to say give it to them that need it, we all agree with that. What's hard is writing a definition that can then be applied to everyone

It shouldn't be hard on the money M.P.s are on.

[Gordon Booth]

Flogging through these posts it appears everyone agrees something needed to be done and I can't see how anyone can disagree with the bulk of Margaret's post 2773.
The argument is how it should be done and whether what is being done is fair.

I was brought up to believe 'God helps them who help themselves' and welfare was for those who couldn't. Things have gone way beyond that now.

That saying made me a Tory(wash your mouth out!) but the way this government are actioning and selling their attempts to reform make me despair.

And to cut the 50 pence tax at this time- talk about timing! Osbourne says it raised little income- does he think the millionares will bring all their money back from offshore because they'll only pay 45 pence tax? Of course he doesn't. Does he think we believe him-does he care?

IDS on £57/week- my joke about him lasting a week on a bottle of plonk a day and a park bench was wrong- he probably spends more than that on one bottle-he'd be off to Maundy Grange after a day.

We have a government of very rich people who are the children of very rich people- I don't think they have a clue how ordinary people live or think. The ideals of fairness, which they say they are trying for, should be vote winners- it's not working that way.

The alternative- a government which would be similarly out of touch and which would throw money we haven't got about like confetti to buy votes.

Perhaps being run by the EU is all that's left to us.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

11) Stop Blaming People That Honestly Need Benefits and pick Only On The Dishonest!

Any Ideas Less

[Margaret Pilkington]

Oh Please Gordon....don't bring the EU into it.
Why can't all parties who have MP's in the POW form a different coalition government...something a bit like the war time Cabinet.....concentrate all their efforts on sorting out the unholy mess that all the parties(over time) have got us into, either by their complete lack of action or action of the wrong sort.

A concerted effort, that would give all of them an opportunity to right what has gone wrong...and if they were all in it together there would be none of the schoolyard tactics of 'he did this, they did that'....the hurling blame and insults is neither adult or intelligent, and while they are doing all this hawing and jawing nothing gets done.

I'm heartily sick of living in a country that seems to have so little focus and direction...and believe me, if I were younger I would leave like a shot.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Flogging through these posts it appears everyone agrees something needed to be done and I can't see how anyone can disagree with the bulk of Margaret's post 2773.
The argument is how it should be done and whether what is being done is fair.

I was brought up to believe 'God helps them who help themselves' and welfare was for those who couldn't. Things have gone way beyond that now.

That saying made me a Tory(wash your mouth out!) but the way this government are actioning and selling their attempts to reform make me despair.

And to cut the 50 pence tax at this time- talk about timing! Osbourne says it raised little income- does he think the millionares will bring all their money back from offshore because they'll only pay 45 pence tax? Of course he doesn't. Does he think we believe him-does he care?

IDS on £57/week- my joke about him lasting a week on a bottle of plonk a day and a park bench was wrong- he probably spends more than that on one bottle-he'd be off to Maundy Grange after a day.

We have a government of very rich people who are the children of very rich people- I don't think they have a clue how ordinary people live or think. The ideals of fairness, which they say they are trying for, should be vote winners- it's not working that way.

The alternative- a government which would be similarly out of touch and which would throw money we haven't got about like confetti to buy votes.

Perhaps being run by the EU is all that's left to us.

There are some very rich people in the Labour Party too Gordon, in fact if I remember rightly the wealthiest MP in parliament is a Labour MP

[Margaret Pilkington]

The majority of the MP's in Parliament come from what could be considered 'privileged' backgrounds...few of them could be considered working class.
They have no concept of the feelings/concerns/issues of the people they are supposed to be reperesenting...well, it is either that or they have a complete disregard for their electorate.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I'm not Labour, I'm not Tory, I'm not Lib Dem.....I couldn't care a hoot about the ideologies of the political parties, and anyway if you look at them closely there isn't room for a sheet of Bronco between any of them.
I just want a government with a leader who can lead.....who listens to the concerns of the people, and more importantly does what he /she says they will.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I'm not Labour, I'm not Tory, I'm not Lib Dem.....I couldn't care a hoot about the ideologies of the political parties, and anyway if you look at them closely there isn't room for a sheet of Bronco between any of them.
I just want a government with a leader who can lead.....who listens to the concerns of the people, and more importantly does what he /she says they will.

Ain't going to happen Margaret any time soon, if ever, that's why people don't vote anymore, it doesn't do what it says on the tin

[Neil]

Originally Posted by cashman

It shouldn't be hard on the money M.P.s are on.

It's easy saying things are wrong but not so easy when you have to decide how to fix them.

As for MP's pay, I think they are underpaid. Pay peanuts get monkeys springs to mind. You might not think what they are paid is peanuts but compared to other sectors it is