The Tories

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Neil

You say they are paid enough - are you comparing that to what you are paid?

If you think of the Country as a big company which in effect it is then you need the best business minds to run it. We don't appear to have them and we are in a mess.

Some would argue the best business minds are in the banks. And we all know how those big companys are run. yer naivety amazes me Neil.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Neil

Of course you need definitions. If you are going to make a law where only British people in need get paid you have to define what that means. You need to define "British" and "in need".

Ok. .... Off you go. Define "British" ... Get back to me when you come up with a definition which we can all agree on. Excuse me if I don't hold my breath while you are doing this. This "define your terms" bs is an excuse for doing nothing while Rome (or your city of choice) burns. And while you are Gradgrinding your way towards a definition, the rest of the world will quite happily and inefficiently work towards the solving of problems ... That's how, in case you haven't noticed, things are handled on this planet.

The tories, by the way, have already "defined" what is wrong with the economy, and have come up with solutions based on that definition.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by cashman

Some would argue the best business minds are in the banks. And we all know how those big companys are run. yer naivety amazes me Neil.

The best business minds are not in banks. Bankers are basically professional gamblers.

Great business minds are people like Richard Branson

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Eric

Ok. .... Off you go. Define "British" ... Get back to me when you come up with a definition which we can all agree on. Excuse me if I don't hold my breath while you are doing this. This "define your terms" bs is an excuse for doing nothing while Rome (or your city of choice) burns. And while you are Gradgrinding your way towards a definition, the rest of the world will quite happily and inefficiently work towards the solving of problems ... That's how, in case you haven't noticed, things are handled on this planet.

The tories, by the way, have already "defined" what is wrong with the economy, and have come up with solutions based on that definition.

It was not me that said pay British people which was why I asked for his definition. It sounded a bit racist to me but I don't think he meant it to be.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Are the british a race - or a nation?
It seems to me that we bend over backwards to accommodate the needs and wishes of other nations, but are reticent about looking out for our own people.

Whoever comes to these shores(it seems) gets looked after. Try going to any other country and expecting the same treatment. I think you would be left to fend for yourself...and many countries would just tell you to 'something off'.......you just wouldn't get past immigration control.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Neil

It was not me that said pay British people which was why I asked for his definition. It sounded a bit racist to me but I don't think he meant it to be.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Are the british a race - or a nation?
It seems to me that we bend over backwards to accommodate the needs and wishes of other nations, but are reticent about looking out for our own people.

Whoever comes to these shores(it seems) gets looked after. Try going to any other country and expecting the same treatment. I think you would be left to fend for yourself...and many countries would just tell you to 'something off'.......you just wouldn't get past immigration control.

Not racist at all Neil, MargaretP sums it up fer me perfectly. Having lived abroad i know how foreigners have to fit in n rightfully so, it never bothered us in the slightest, is it so wrong to want the same treatment here?

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Neil

You say they are paid enough - are you comparing that to what you are paid?

If you think of the Country as a big company which in effect it is then you need the best business minds to run it. We don't appear to have them and we are in a mess.

Neil, let's just slot our politicians in place.

Many of them, particularly the top people in the main three parties, come from very rich families, went to expensive private(public?) schools, into the top universities then straight into politics.

They no nothing else but the political world. They couldn't run a bank, a company, not even a drinking session in a brewery. They know nothing of science, engineering or business.

The only reason they get highly paid positions on the boards of companies is because they have contacts, access to the seat of power, influence.

They are paid the rate for the job- a professional politician, not much use in any other profession .

You want the best business minds to run the country? I agree, a country needs to be a profitable company in effect. The massive salaries would be worth while.

But will these people be let into the seats of power? Like hell they will.Do you think for a minute the professional politicians would let anyone else near that power, that cushy number? Never.

Digby Jones and one or two others were brought in to advise and suggest policy. They didn't last long, they were ignored, slighted and had it made clear by both the politicians who hired them and the civil servants they were supposed to help that they were wasting their time. Digby Jones actually said that. Even Frank Field, a rare man in politics, was asked to come up with good ideas for the welfare state, did it and then was totally ignored. His suggestions were sound but politically uacceptable.

For the job our politicians of all parties have done over the last 20 years- we haven't under paid them, we shouldn't have paid them at all! Payment by results.

If you want the best business minds running the country,men of top ability, you need to sweep the Houses of Parliament clean and start again.

It won't happen.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Spot on Gordon.
You have hit the nail on the head. Frank Field has been trying to get governments to look at welfare spending, and the effectiveness of the use of this money for many years(more than a decade) and he has been ignored.

No-one wants to be seen as 'nasty' for being more realistic in the distribution of welfare.
But the honest truth is that welfare is costing us more year on year - because the cost of living goes up and benefits do too....also there are more older people.
To pay for benefits, we have to have young people in work and contributing both taxes and national insurance.

If a child grows up seeing no-one in the household work, but yet everything they need is provided...then do you think they will choose to go out to work?

It is vital to instill a work ethic in the young people growing up.......and now someone is going to say 'what's the use of that when there are no jobs?'
Well, there are jobs out there.....it may not be a job that you would choose to do, but the grim reality of life is that sometimes we have to do a job...any job, just to get work experience.
I worked at things I didn't like doing.....a weaving shed, a shop, an engineering works...these were not the jobs I wanted to do...but I needed to do them, to feed and clothe myself and put a roof over my head.
I certainly didn't want the state to keep me......I worked to get what I needed and eventually was able to train for a profession.
People have to take responsibility for themselves......not think that the state will provide for them.

I have said it before and I say it again. Welfare should be a helping hand, not a way of life...or a career choice.

[Gordon Booth]

I still can't work out why a million Poles and other East Europeans could flood into the UK and get jobs when we had 2.5 million who couldn't get jobs!

I lie- the answer is simple.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

I still can't work out why a million Poles and other East Europeans could flood into the UK and get jobs when we had 2.5 million who couldn't get jobs!

I lie- the answer is simple.

It is simple, but some are too dense to go figure, Express Gifts is a perfect example.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

I still can't work out why a million Poles and other East Europeans could flood into the UK and get jobs when we had 2.5 million who couldn't get jobs!

I lie- the answer is simple.

They live, and send money back home......draw(generous) benefits for children in Poland....and this benefits not our economy, but theirs.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Neil

You say they are paid enough - are you comparing that to what you are paid?

If you think of the Country as a big company which in effect it is then you need the best business minds to run it. We don't appear to have them and we are in a mess.

The best business minds would not dream of entering the current x-factor type popularity contest that passes for politics, regardless of how much you paid them. They are already in control of the country, lobbying, cajoling and in some cases slipping backhanders under the guise of free hotel stays, dinners, holidays etc.. to the muppets who think they run the country.

Cases given as evidence, tax relief for the rich, companies allowed to flaunt tax law and watering down levenson.

[cmonstanley]

the eu usa trade treaty to be signed in 2 months will mean you can buy healthcare from the us of a read into that.bye bye nhs.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by cashman

Not racist at all Neil, MargaretP sums it up fer me perfectly. Having lived abroad i know how foreigners have to fit in n rightfully so, it never bothered us in the slightest, is it so wrong to want the same treatment here?

Certainly with you on this one Cashy - like you I have lived abroad and I have also worked in foreign climes for over 20 years - you either learn the language or pay for an interpreter - no multi-languge forms, and you don't get any of the social services/benefits that immigrants qualify for when they come here.

[Less]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

the eu usa trade treaty to be signed in 2 months will mean you can buy healthcare from the us of a read into that.bye bye nhs.

I would have thought that if you are rich enough already, you could buy healthcare from anywhere in the World.