The Tories - Page 195

Margaret Pilkington · 06-04-2013, 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

no your missing the point,i was pointing out that the media lead everybody to think there was thousands.any way thought this was interesting DWP Get The Builders In ? Third Universal Credit Boss In Just 4 Months Takes Charge | the void

I'm not missing your point at all...but you would like me to. of that I'm quite sure.
You know, I read a variety of news sources(as I'm sure many other people do) I can also read between the lines.

Less · 06-04-2013, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinness

I'm not the brightest button, don't mind admitting it. Way I see it, as long as I can fill my plastic fag with liquid, afford a few beers, fill the motor with fuel, get a doctor to fix me when i'm ill and keep a roof over my head, I'm reasonably happy.

I know I have to share the wealth by paying taxes, which ostensibly, will pay to protect me from crime, educate my kids, keep me healthy, help the less fortunate in times of hardship and pay a bunch of guys in Westminster to actually collect and share this money out fairly.

Seems reasonable enough to me...

Unfortunately it's been shown that the guys in Westminster are skimming my money to pay for duckponds, second homes, moats and designer clothes for themselves, they give money to countries that don't need it and pay an outrageous annual sub to be in a social club called Europe. Result is my taxes ain't enough to do what they are supposed to do. So these guys decide to install a few extra taxes..not only do you get taxed on what you earn, you get taxed on what you spend, what you save, when you make a profit and even when you die.

These guys in Westminster, that I'm paying, still cannot do their job, they can't budget the money they have coming in with the money they have going out, unfortunately they have a contract of employment that prevents me from firing them immediately. Clutching at straws they try to save their jobs by showing that they are smart and clever at budgeting.

First they reduce the money paid to protect me from crime, then they screw with the way they educate my kids to save a few quid, then they muck about with doctors and health services. But they still can't balance the books.

So they blame the people least able to argue their case, the unemployed, the disabled and the sick. They make savage cuts, force them to pay for extra bedrooms and council tax from their allowance, which is already supposed to be the bare minimum they need to live on and thus over-ride their own definition of bare minimum benefit.

The Westminster gang judge the average person the way they judge each other. They would not pay 3p in the £1 extra tax to help their fellow man, to pay for decent healthcare and crime free streets and they assume that neither would we, because as the current gang have shown, they prefer to reduce the taxes of millionaires by 5p in the £1.

Ah, the unemployed, the sick, the aged how much better off we would all be if we stopped just blaming them, but actually could reduce them to ashes?
Hey up Jay, this is an all inclusive statement, don't think just because you're of pensionable age, given the right backing, 'The all in it together brigade' won't pick on you, you've served your purpose and are no use to the coalitions bright future.

jaysay · 06-04-2013, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

Ah, the unemployed, the sick, the aged how much better off we would all be if we stopped just blaming them, but actually could reduce them to ashes?
Hey up Jay, this is an all inclusive statement, don't think just because you're of pensionable age, given the right backing, 'The all in it together brigade' won't pick on you, you've served your purpose and are no use to the coalitions bright future.

Less I'm not moaning I'll leave that to you, your doing enough for both of us

DaveinGermany · 06-04-2013, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

Less I'm not moaning

Perspectives Jay, to you he may be moaning, to others he's speaking from the position of one actually faced with these changes directly. Most people on here will be affected by these events in one way or another, maybe not first hand but there will be an indirect consequence to them.

Although many will feel the effects, they will understand that there is room for improvement & that some change must inevitably happen to ensure a fair balance, but & it's a major but, it should be more compassionately & humanely achieved, each case needs individual consideration & not covered by blanket policies.

I'm not a raging red, nor tory blue either, certainly no liberalist handwringer, but I do believe in fairness & right, unfortunately there isn't a single party in the UK that fulfils these ideals for me at present & I don't suppose there was in the past either, still there's always the future I suppose, but I can't really say I'm overconfident in that prognosis.

Less · 06-04-2013, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

Less I'm not moaning I'll leave that to you, your doing enough for both of us

Well thanks for that, I know our politics could never be the same, however, just because you have the opinion that I'm just moaning doesn't make it so.

Look at what's happened over the last 24 hours?

Added to the ordinary evil that those on benefits cause to the upright citizens of this fair land, we even have 'the boss' claiming it's the fault of this system that a father murders his children.

Yes, the system of benefits needs sorting out, but, no, not at the expense of the vulnerable, nor by saying in propaganda terms that those that are on benefits would murder their kids for a little bit more.
That was really sick.

jaysay · 06-04-2013, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Perspectives Jay, to you he may be moaning, to others he's speaking from the position of one actually faced with these changes directly. Most people on here will be affected by these events in one way or another, maybe not first hand but there will be an indirect consequence to them.

Although many will feel the effects, they will understand that there is room for improvement & that some change must inevitably happen to ensure a fair balance, but & it's a major but, it should be more compassionately & humanely achieved, each case needs individual consideration & not covered by blanket policies.

I'm not a raging red, nor tory blue either, certainly no liberalist handwringer, but I do believe in fairness & right, unfortunately there isn't a single party in the UK that fulfils these ideals for me at present & I don't suppose there was in the past either, still there's always the future I suppose, but I can't really say I'm overconfident in that prognosis.

And there lies the problem Dave, whatever the Tories do will always be wrong, even if people know things must change. I never said that what the government was doing was right, what I did ask was for constructive ideas on how to achieve a better balance, carrying on like we were wasn't an option, but as yet nobody has come forward. Politicians from all parteries only have one string to their bow, its not our fault, but sadly it usually is, we now get irresponsible government from all colours, you only have to listen to PMQs on Wednesday's at, I think 12 noon, I don't watch it anymore, Andy Pandy and Bill and Ben are far more entertaining, and talk far more sense.

Guinness · 06-04-2013, 15:42

Whatever system you put in place will be open to abuse, and some people will always find the chinks and cheat.

Just been looking at some figures....

£100 million is spent investigating benefit cheats every year, £215 million is recouped.

An estimated £1.2 billion a year in benefit fraud (apparently thats 0.7% of all benefits paid out)

An estimated £12 billion a year in unclaimed benefits because of the complexity of the current system (Less's blog post typifies this)

Looks to me like the current system is actually saving the country money, to the tune of £10.8 billion a year....are we really sure it needs messing with?

Consider also that HMRC reckons that they are down around £40 billion a year in tax fraud and £25 billion a year in questionable tax evasion...I know which system I think needs savagely attacking, but since most of these fraudsters are companies or people with wealth, who probably donate to the tories and would never dream of appearing on Jeremy Kyle in a hoodie looking like they haven't had a wash for a week, I won't be holding my breath waiting for IDS and his ilk to do anything.

cashman · 06-04-2013, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

And there lies the problem Dave, whatever the Tories do will always be wrong,

At last yeh admit it.

cmonstanley · 06-04-2013, 21:31

Benefits in Britain: separating the facts from the fiction | Politics | The Observer myths and facts nothing like the truth

Guinness · 06-04-2013, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

Benefits in Britain: separating the facts from the fiction | Politics | The Observer myths and facts nothing like the truth

Sometimes, just sometimes... you post something really relevant from a bona fide source. Just a pity you never expand and go for the 'kill shot'.

I particularly like the part where the myth of the feckless, workshy 2nd or 3rd generation dole dosser is blown out of the water and the evidence that 40% of benefit claimants are not Jeremy Kyle muppets but are pensioners who need help to keep warm, fed and safe, after a lifetime of paying into the system.

Also noticed that only 2% of households have never worked, half of these are under 25...(which of course would have nothing to do with colleges and universities offering mickey mouse courses in media studies, star trek and the history of the beatles, all with funded apprenticeships, bursaries and the promise of none existant jobs to go to on graduation...ok maybe I'm exaggerating a little here, but not by much)

When I was a whippersnapper, apprentices were people who were taken on to learn a trade..under this and the last two governments they were a way of massaging the unemployment figures and getting around the minimum wage....you can in effect employ a 64 year old on £2.65 an hour as long as you agree to train him and call him an apprentice, you don't have to guarantee him a job and, after twelve months, when his apprenticeship is over you can get shut and repeat. (This practice is scheduled to stop in August 2013..but they said that last year too, so I'll believe it when I see it)

I get young kids applying for jobs all the time, they knock on the door, ring up and post cv's..the other week when we had heavy snow, one young lad braved it and hand delivered his cv like he was the Avon Calling lady.....can't even give him a chance because of the constant cuts this damn government is imposing..so now he's one of the 'scroungers' that they are attacking, he'll probably end up being forced to attend a job club overseen by an automaton job centre worker and made to post applications for jobs as a brain surgeon in Lancaster or Leyland just to tick boxes for the government to show he's actively looking for work..and in a few years he'll think 'stuff it I give up' and become part of that % that have never worked.

cmonstanley · 07-04-2013, 08:25

Worried residents of Harold who are currently on any form of benefit from job seekers allowance to war widows pension pleaded with the police to take them into custody to ensure the safety of those around them.

Carly Jeffery who works as a teaching assistant at St Mary’s and receives housing benefit and child benefit for her two children Ben (7) and Alice (4) is terrified that being in reciept of government money means that she will harm her family.

‘With the Daily Mail claiming that Mick Philpott and his two accomplices wouldn’t have killed if being on benefits hadn’t made them do it, I’m worried for the safety of my children. I love the kids to bits but I now see that they have been born into a culture of dependency and are doomed to be as feckless as I am. It’s only right that I’m locked up and they are raised by the state which will of course ease the burden on hard working tax payers and give the children a better chance in life, won’t it?’

It’s not just parents who are demanding incarceration.

‘I was okay about being given money by the state so I didn’t starve,’ said Adam Cassidy, who is currently on job seeker’s allowance. ‘Then I heard George Osborne say “It’s right we ask questions as a government, a society and as taxpayers, why we are subsidising lifestyles like these. It does need to be handled.” And I realised that if the Chancellor is linking what I thought was a wildly abnormal and horrific crime with being on benefits then the problem must be very real and very serious because only an abhorrent arse would use the deaths of six children to score cheap political points. Clearly I should be removed from society before I do something terrible.’

Harold’s police service has been swamped with residents demanding that they be arrested because they are scroungers and moral degenerates who refuse to work and have no moral compass.

‘I had winter fuel allowance and a cold weather payment,’ Ruby Butler (83) told the Evening Harold. ‘Now I’m part of what A.N Wilson called “the bleak and often grotesque world of the benefit scrounger” along with most of the rest of the Mothers’ Union. Please take me off the streets before I start selling crack.’

As dozens surrounded the police station and begged to be put behind bars PC Anita Flegg appealed for calm.

‘We’re not interested,’ she told the crowd. ‘We don’t think being on benefits makes you a criminal anymore than being a GP makes you the next Harold Shipman.’

Rumours that local GP Dr Clive Evans has tried to hand himself over to police as a preventative measure remain persistent but unconfirmed.

through the tories eyes

jaysay · 07-04-2013, 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

Worried residents of Harold who are currently on any form of benefit from job seekers allowance to war widows pension pleaded with the police to take them into custody to ensure the safety of those around them.

Carly Jeffery who works as a teaching assistant at St Mary’s and receives housing benefit and child benefit for her two children Ben (7) and Alice (4) is terrified that being in reciept of government money means that she will harm her family.

‘With the Daily Mail claiming that Mick Philpott and his two accomplices wouldn’t have killed if being on benefits hadn’t made them do it, I’m worried for the safety of my children. I love the kids to bits but I now see that they have been born into a culture of dependency and are doomed to be as feckless as I am. It’s only right that I’m locked up and they are raised by the state which will of course ease the burden on hard working tax payers and give the children a better chance in life, won’t it?’

It’s not just parents who are demanding incarceration.

‘I was okay about being given money by the state so I didn’t starve,’ said Adam Cassidy, who is currently on job seeker’s allowance. ‘Then I heard George Osborne say “It’s right we ask questions as a government, a society and as taxpayers, why we are subsidising lifestyles like these. It does need to be handled.” And I realised that if the Chancellor is linking what I thought was a wildly abnormal and horrific crime with being on benefits then the problem must be very real and very serious because only an abhorrent arse would use the deaths of six children to score cheap political points. Clearly I should be removed from society before I do something terrible.’

Harold’s police service has been swamped with residents demanding that they be arrested because they are scroungers and moral degenerates who refuse to work and have no moral compass.

‘I had winter fuel allowance and a cold weather payment,’ Ruby Butler (83) told the Evening Harold. ‘Now I’m part of what A.N Wilson called “the bleak and often grotesque world of the benefit scrounger” along with most of the rest of the Mothers’ Union. Please take me off the streets before I start selling crack.’

As dozens surrounded the police station and begged to be put behind bars PC Anita Flegg appealed for calm.

‘We’re not interested,’ she told the crowd. ‘We don’t think being on benefits makes you a criminal anymore than being a GP makes you the next Harold Shipman.’

Rumours that local GP Dr Clive Evans has tried to hand himself over to police as a preventative measure remain persistent but unconfirmed.

through the tories eyes

Great cut and paste job C'mon, except the last line that's obviously all your own work

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