The Tories

[Aussie Irene]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Margaret, you speak as if there is a lot of difference between the parties......and we know that this is no longer true.
The days of a party with a conscience for social responsibility are long gone....socialism is dead and has been for a long time.
The poverty you speak of is not the same poverty that you and I knew when we were growing up.....when there was no help unless you went on the Parish.
Today's poverty is a different animal altogether.
It would not matter which party got into government....none are interested in the common man, the worker. These days the politicians sitting rarely have a background of real working life, most have had a privileged upbringing, with a public school,education, most are the offspring of wealthy families.....which is the main reason why they do not understand or even care about the likes of you and me...we are just means to an end....And prior to getting,our vote they can promise us anything.....they know that once elected we can do burger all about what they do!

Margaret, I don't think it is any different today, regarding the status of politicians, than it was 70years ago. In the general election of 1945, Accrington elected Walter Scott-Elliot who was recruited by the Labour Party to be their candidate. He was from a aristocratic Scottish family, educated at Eton, married to a Austrian Baroness, and a very wealthy Scottish landowner. A far cry from the working class of Accrington, but a big winner for the labour party

[Margaret Pilkington]

Irene, I was talking of the difference between parties as much as the difference between actual politicians.....and although I wasn't around 70 years ago I have been alive long enough to see the change in politicians, with the rise in career politicians, those who have never worked on a shop floor....a mine or an iron works....a real job with a wage packet attached to it

Today's politicians are focused on obtaining a seat in the Palace of Westminster, they will represent any constituency, whether they know anything about it(problems, needs, privations) regardless.
How can you represent a place with heart and passion if you haven't(or don't) live there?

But the main aim of the current bunch...all parties, is to make a nice little nest egg for yourself. Make contacts, gain directorships...so that once your political career comes to an end you can still live the life to which you have grown accustomed.
NO politician ever leaves office poor.

And before someone tells me that my post indicates the politics of envy...I will tell them that I had a very long, happy and satisfying career...doing what I loved and at the same time helping my local community.

I came from a very financially poor family, at a time just after the war when there was no help, no welfare state(or at least one that was just in its infancy) so I understand poverty from a practical standpoint.
I understand that you can only have what you can pay for........the Labour party did not understand that.....it spent money it didn't have and left a debt to be cleaned up by others. This in my book, is unforgivable. It could not be trusted with the finances of this country and so it didn't get elected.

I didn't vote for the Tories.....but cast my vote with the hope that it would prevent the Labour candidate from keeping this constituency...and in that I failed. Am I bitter ? No just disappointed that the people of our town failed to remember the jibes made at them by this man.

[Aussie Irene]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Irene, I was talking of the difference between parties as much as the difference between actual politicians.....and although I wasn't around 70 years ago I have been alive long enough to see the change in politicians, with the rise in career politicians, those who have never worked on a shop floor....a mine or an iron works....a real job with a wage packet attached to it

Today's politicians are focused on obtaining a seat in the Palace of Westminster, they will represent any constituency, whether they know anything about it(problems, needs, privations) regardless.
How can you represent a place with heart and passion if you haven't(or don't) live there?

But the main aim of the current bunch...all parties, is to make a nice little nest egg for yourself. Make contacts, gain directorships...so that once your political career comes to an end you can still live the life to which you have grown accustomed.
NO politician ever leaves office poor.

And before someone tells me that my post indicates the politics of envy...I will tell them that I had a very long, happy and satisfying career...doing what I loved and at the same time helping my local community.

I came from a very financially poor family, at a time just after the war when there was no help, no welfare state(or at least one that was just in its infancy) so I understand poverty from a practical standpoint.
I understand that you can only have what you can pay for........the Labour party did not understand that.....it spent money it didn't have and left a debt to be cleaned up by others. This in my book, is unforgivable. It could not be trusted with the finances of this country and so it didn't get elected.

I didn't vote for the Tories.....but cast my vote with the hope that it would prevent the Labour candidate from keeping this constituency...and in that I failed. Am I bitter ? No just disappointed that the people of our town failed to remember the jibes made at them by this man.

Margaret, I fully understand where you are coming from. In fact nearly everyone in those days rowed in the same boat. I just think it would be a rarity to get someone in Westminster, who had come up from the shop floor.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Aussie Irene

Margaret, I fully understand where you are coming from. In fact nearly everyone in those days rowed in the same boat. I just think it would be a rarity to get someone in Westminster, who had come up from the shop floor.

And that, Irene, in a nutshell, is why politicians are so divorced from life....the life that the rest of us lead.

[cashman]

NHS sell-out: Tories sign largest privatisation deal in history worth £780MILLION - Mirror Online Read that and weep you sad gets that voted Tory.http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...n_7272956.html

[accyman]

dont forget to thank labour for putting forward an unelectable leader

it was as though labour didnt want to gain power

[cashman]

Originally Posted by accyman

dont forget to thank labour for putting forward an unelectable leader

To be honest mate i dont think that made a blind bit of difference. The whole lot of em were unelectable by not listening to the grass roots, in my view. Cameron promised a referendum no-one in the shadow cabinet seemed to reckon it was a good idea or what 95% of the public wanted. To me thats called "Arrogance"

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cashman

NHS sell-out: Tories sign largest privatisation deal in history worth £780MILLION - Mirror Online Read that and weep you sad gets that voted Tory.Justin Tomlinson, New Disabilities Minister, Voted Against Protecting Disabled Child Benefits

Cashy if things are still free at the point of service does it really matter if there is some commercial enterprise in provision of care?
And of course you are going to say 'YES' there is.
Many hospitals struggle to provide adequate service/ levels of care because of targets brought in by governments...targets which have absolutely nothing to do with clinical care......the kind of care delivered on a 'need' basis.

All governments of every persuasion have meddled with the NHS.....mainly to the detriment of care services.

Circle Health took over the running of Hinchinbrooke Hospital. (and before someone tells me Circle health returned this hospital to NHS status...but not before they had turned around a failing hospital) This was a small run down hospital. The management and the running of this hospital were turned over to people who had medical knowledge...the doctors and nurses.
They were involved in the administration of the hospital and the morale of the nurses improved, the care standards improved, sickness levels went down because the staff were involved in making this a success...and they wanted the best for their community.
The CQC slated this hospital and said it was performing very poorly...this was all a political ploy and the CQC had to back track and gave the hospital good ratings.

Now, I don't know about you,but I want a well run hospital if ever I am in need of medical care...and I don't care who provides this effectively...if the great leviathan that is the NHS cannot do it safely, but private enterprise can then that is how it has to be.

Over the last two years I have seen a lot of the inside of various hospitals and I can tell you things have not got better. This is not because money has not been spent on the NHS, it is because money is spent on the wrong things...the priorities are wrong.
Until they stop tinkering around at the edges and take real decisive action then things will not change

[cashman]

Aye but private enterprise has no place at all in the NHS as far as i'm concerned, all that concerns them is profit. I think its more if they wanted to do it better then yes, but all they are concerned wi as far as i'm concerned is conning the public.

[Margaret Pilkington]

So if you needed a hip replacement and the surgeon said 'we can't do it at RBH...But I can do it at Gisburn Park..a private hospital(but at no cost to you) are you saying you would turn it down?

It makes no sense to have facilities standing idle when they can be tendered out to be used by the NHS to the clinical benefit of patients.
My daughter needed a CT scan and on the day it was to be done they were inundated with emergencies(which would have meant either a very long wait in the department or re scheduling the appointment..?Instead she was given the choice of having this done at Beardwood.....they had slts vacant and we were not being asked to stump up for this service..so what do you think we chose?
Beardwood, of course.
Their spare capacity is tendered out to the NHS which means that emergencies are dealt with on a clinical need basis, but scheduled appointments are not disrupted.
Isn't that the best of both worlds?

When you are being asked to either pay for services upfront, or have secondary medical insurance then that is the time to be worried

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

So if you needed a hip replacement and the surgeon said 'we can't do it at RBH...But I can do it at Gisburn Park..a private hospital(but at no cost to you) are you saying you would turn it down?

It makes no sense to have facilities standing idle when they can be tendered out to be used by the NHS to the clinical benefit of patients.
My daughter needed a CT scan and on the day it was to be done they were inundated with emergencies(which would have meant either a very long wait in the department or re scheduling the appointment..?Instead she was given the choice of having this done at Beardwood.....they had slts vacant and we were not being asked to stump up for this service..so what do you think we chose?
Beardwood, of course.
Their spare capacity is tendered out to the NHS which means that emergencies are dealt with on a clinical need basis, but scheduled appointments are not disrupted.
Isn't that the best of both worlds?

When you are being asked to either pay for services upfront, or have secondary medical insurance then that is the time to be worried

No not at all Margaret, I'm referring to the other things, not the actual medical side,

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by cashman

NHS sell-out: Tories sign largest privatisation deal in history worth £780MILLION - Mirror Online Read that and weep you sad gets that voted Tory.

Cashy, the Mail quote is from 12 March 2015, haven't heard about it from any Labour Shadow Cabinet or any of their stalwart supporters, in fact haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else, not even the BBC - more Mirror crap perhaps?

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by cashman

NHS sell-out: Tories sign largest privatisation deal in history worth £780MILLION - Mirror Online Read that and weep you sad gets that voted Tory.Justin Tomlinson, New Disabilities Minister, Voted Against Protecting Disabled Child Benefits

New Labour started privatisation in 1999(they said it was to create 'choice and competition'). In 13 years they privatised 4.3%, in 5 years the ConDems privatised another 1.7%.
So there's not a lot of difference in them, is there?

Remember who gave the GP's a 30% rise on condition they stopped providing night and weekend cover? The economics of madness(or incompetence). How much does night and weekend cover cost the NHS, if you can get it? That's why A&E is overwhelmed.

Don't forget your GP surgery is a private company, the partners own the practice, claim from the NHS and the profit they make is theirs(on top of their private patients). Your dentist is a private company, claims for its NHS patients(if it takes any) keeps the profits and gives a much better service to its private patients but charges them a fortune.


Still can't see why a non profit organisation(the NHS) can't do it cheaper than a private company- inefficiency, incompetence, over staffed, too many empire builders,paying over the odds for materials, equipment and medicines?

[Margaret Pilkington]

What other things Cashy?
GP services?
These were shot to pieces by the last labour government who gave the GP's new contracts which allowed them to opt out of provision of out of hours services.
This has been disastrous for patients, has led to the pressure on the Accident and Emergency departments.
Out of hours services were provided by expensive commercial companies....who had no commitment to patients well being.
The other issue which concerned me greatly while I was still working was the introduction of PFI.
Balfour Beattie were responsible for building the new part of the RBH......this was done to make the community feel that they were getting a spanking new facility.
What wasn't explained was that the hospital would be shackled into a huge debt.....that all work needed in the hospital would only be done by Balfour Beattie at premium charges rather than the 'in house'plumbers, electricians, engineers.
I was told recently that it cost something like £250 for a light bulb to be changed by Balfour Beattie.
This is a huge cost which could have been better spent employing nurses and people to care for those who need looking after.
Labour did this to the NHS.....so be under no illusion that the NHS would be any safer in their hands.
Also the articles that you cited are Labour biased newspapers....so they are not going to be complimentary in any way about anything that government by anyone other than Labour are doing.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Gordon, I think I might have answered why the NHS cannot do it cheaper...they are shackled into massive debt which they have no power to reduce.....a debt which was promoted by a labour goverment.