The Tories - Page 39

Margaret Pilkington · 26-09-2011, 14:07

The thing about recent governments Eric, is they have failed to recognise that some of the electorate have brains that they use every day.
So much in life has been dumbed down, so much in life is being taken over, government wants to be responsible for much in our lives....they want us to be thick, because thick people do not question...they just follow where-ever the govt wants to lead...not for me. I have always asked the questions....been gobby...especially if I thought someone was trying to get one over on me.

As for the economic fallout....everyone needs to be worried....governments, banks, financial institutions are gambling with our money....future pensions.

Eric · 26-09-2011, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The thing about recent governments Eric, is they have failed to recognise that some of the electorate have brains that they use every day.
So much in life has been dumbed down, so much in life is being taken over, government wants to be responsible for much in our lives....they want us to be thick, because thick people do not question...they just follow where-ever the govt wants to lead...not for me. I have always asked the questions....been gobby...especially if I thought someone was trying to get one over on me.

As for the economic fallout....everyone needs to be worried....governments, banks, financial institutions are gambling with our money....future pensions.

Reminds me of something from Shakespeare: "He thinks too much; such men are dangerous." Govts. like to have voters that can't think; or, are too busy watching "reality" tv that they don't have time to think.

On the bright side, for those of us fortunate enough to live in the Great White North, the fallout from the Euro crisis will not affect Canada all that badly. We went through the last recession with hardly any damage to our economy. Most of us didn't even notice it. And it will probably be the same the next time.

Margaret Pilkington · 26-09-2011, 15:18

then you must consider yourself lucky....that you will be relatively untouched by the financial crisis that we are embroiled in.

Eric · 26-09-2011, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

then you must consider yourself lucky....that you will be relatively untouched by the financial crisis that we are embroiled in.

It has nothing to do with luck ... our banks and other financial institutions are rock solid, and controlled by sensible legislation. Our economy is based on resources that we are fortunate enough to have in abundance ... and it is stuff that is always in demand: oil, natural gas, iron, nickle, gold, uranium, potash ... lots of neat stuff. And because of our political system, the Feds can't sell off our natural wealth for short term gain. Mineral wealth is owned by the individual provinces. For example, Alberta gets the revenue from their oil, as does Newfoundland. The government of Saskatchewan gets the revenue from their potash and uranium. Quebec sells power to the North Eastern States. And BC grows the finest marijuana on the planet

The manufacturing sector is the most vulnerable, and with the US as our major trading partner we will suffer some.

Margaret Pilkington · 26-09-2011, 16:11

I didn't mean luck in that sense.........I meant that you are lucky to be living where you live.......that you have resources that are protected(by sensible legislation).

I don't suppose you have every tom, dick and harry knocking at your door to let them in and provide them with everything their own country cannot......I guess you don't have people there who hate your guts,despise the country they have adopted, but who will take every benefit that is on offer...try to blow you up...... and we can't deport them....because of simpering EU rules.

We had a wonderful stock of gold reserves.....some chancellor or other was short sighted enough to think that we didn't need a buffer against hard times.....he thought that the days of boom and bust were over and could never come back.
So yes.......please consider yourself lucky. Because if you ar buffered against the current crisis...you are lucky.

jaysay · 26-09-2011, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I didn't mean luck in that sense.........I meant that you are lucky to be living where you live.......that you have resources that are protected(by sensible legislation).

I don't suppose you have every tom, dick and harry knocking at your door to let them in and provide them with everything their own country cannot......I guess you don't have people there who hate your guts,despise the country they have adopted, but who will take every benefit that is on offer...try to blow you up...... and we can't deport them....because of simpering EU rules.

We had a wonderful stock of gold reserves.....some chancellor or other was short sighted enough to think that we didn't need a buffer against hard times.....he thought that the days of boom and bust were over and could never come back.
So yes.......please consider yourself lucky. Because if you are buffered against the current crisis...you are lucky.

Not to worry Margaret, the two Ed's seem to have all the answers, just a pity they didn't put um into effect between 1997 and 2010 when they had the chance

Eric · 26-09-2011, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I didn't mean luck in that sense.........I meant that you are lucky to be living where you live.......that you have resources that are protected(by sensible legislation).

I don't suppose you have every tom, dick and harry knocking at your door to let them in and provide them with everything their own country cannot......I guess you don't have people there who hate your guts,despise the country they have adopted, but who will take every benefit that is on offer...try to blow you up...... and we can't deport them....because of simpering EU rules.

We had a wonderful stock of gold reserves.....some chancellor or other was short sighted enough to think that we didn't need a buffer against hard times.....he thought that the days of boom and bust were over and could never come back.
So yes.......please consider yourself lucky. Because if you ar buffered against the current crisis...you are lucky.

The immigration thinggy: Obviously lots of folks in other countries would love to come to Canada. But there are stringent rules, and a points system. We usually take only those with the skills that we need. At the moment, people working in the health care field are needed. Skilled trades also. And the present government is on a rampage to find those who are here illegally and ship them off home. There is a hot line system by which citizens can report those whom they suspect are in the country illegally. Quebec has its own set of rules ... mainly to do with the French language. And Quebec also demands that immigrants "fit in", in the sense that they have to respect democracy, freedom of speech, separation of church and state, equality of opportunity, and equality between the sexes ... this last one upsets some muslims, but screw 'em if they can't take a joke.

However, we are generous when it comes to aid. Canadian warships and troops were very quick to respond in the recent Haitian earthquake crisis. The immigration rules were relaxed for victims, esp. the ones that had family already in Canada. For reasons that are obvious, most of them went to Quebec ... but you can bet your bottom dollar that it won't be long before they are eating poutine and cheering for the Montreal Canadiens. Apart from the First Nations, we are a country of immigrants. However, and it was admittedly just after the winter olympics, over 80% of folks polled considered themselves "Proud Canadians". And in la belle province, the figure was over 60%

And we have lots of gold ... most of it still in the ground though

Margaret Pilkington · 26-09-2011, 17:52

see...like I said before, you are very lucky.
We once had a country like that....but politicians didn't listen when we (the electorate) we re expressing concerns regarding the dilution of our national identity. We were told that immigration(of all kinds) was good for us....diversity was good for us. Any dissent was labelled as racist...which stifled any real rational discussion.
Now at the Labour party conference there is much wringing of hands and much saying of 'mea culpa'...there is an admission that unchecked immigration drove down wages and made us all poorer...and that they are going to learn lessons from the past......just as they have done before(though I didn't see much evidence of this learning).....they got it so wrong, but we have to live with the consequences....they will be long lasting and will alter the fabric of this country forever.
If I was younger you would not see my soles for dust.

jaysay · 26-09-2011, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

see...like I said before, you are very lucky.
We once had a country like that....but politicians didn't listen when we (the electorate) we re expressing concerns regarding the dilution of our national identity. We were told that immigration(of all kinds) was good for us....diversity was good for us. Any dissent was labelled as racist...which stifled any real rational discussion.
Now at the Labour party conference there is much wringing of hands and much saying of 'mea culpa'...there is an admission that unchecked immigration drove down wages and made us all poorer...and that they are going to learn lessons from the past......just as they have done before(though I didn't see much evidence of this learning).....they got it so wrong, but we have to live with the consequences....they will be long lasting and will alter the fabric of this country forever.
If I was younger you would not see my soles for dust.

Ya Margaret and with all the posturing about vicious cuts being implemented I here Mr Balls would not be reversing any of the policies of the present Government

Eric · 26-09-2011, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

see...like I said before, you are very lucky.
We once had a country like that....but politicians didn't listen when we (the electorate) we re expressing concerns regarding the dilution of our national identity. We were told that immigration(of all kinds) was good for us....diversity was good for us. Any dissent was labelled as racist...which stifled any real rational discussion.
Now at the Labour party conference there is much wringing of hands and much saying of 'mea culpa'...there is an admission that unchecked immigration drove down wages and made us all poorer...and that they are going to learn lessons from the past......just as they have done before(though I didn't see much evidence of this learning).....they got it so wrong, but we have to live with the consequences....they will be long lasting and will alter the fabric of this country forever.
If I was younger you would not see my soles for dust.

I have mentioned before in several threads that what may be good for a country like Canada, might not be good for the UK. We have grown on diversity, thrived on immigration. We have developed a strong national identity. Folks all over the world know what Canada stands for. They know that Canada can be relied on as a good friend and loyal ally in a crisis: WWl, WWll, Korea, UN peacekeeping, Bosnia, Afghanistan (but not Iraq ll, 'cause we knew that was Bush BS), and whenever there is a disaster Canada is there with money and help. We have struggled to create unity out of diversity: for example, 8 million Canadians speak French as their first language; we have over 700 First Nations; we have major cosmopolitan cities, and we have millions living in farming villages and maritime outports. Let's face it, we shouldn't really be a country.

But the UK is different. It has (or maybe "had") an identity built over centuries. The UK is the cradle of democarcy, the model which all present day democracies have followed. The British stood alone against the Nazis after the collapse of France in 1940. The Battle of Britain, not Stalingrad, was probably the turning point of the last world war. Britain stood alone and faced down Hitler while Roosevelt sat scratching his nuts waiting to see if it was in the US interest to support them with 50 overaged destroyers

What unchecked immigration seems to have done is weaken that identity. I don't see any reason, economic or geopolitical why Britain cannot stand on its own, set limits on immigration, and set rules for immigrants ... play the game by our rules or get the hell back to where you came from

You guys don't need to form a new identity based on diversity. Screw that. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the one you had. I know I don't live there, but I don't believe it is too late to halt the negative changes that immigration and the EU have wrought.

Margaret Pilkington · 26-09-2011, 21:11

While we are in the EU, the rules are made by unelected officials in Brussels....who have no idea of the fabric of our country...or perhaps they have and don't care about the damage that is caused by uncontrolled immigration.......everyone in the EU has a right to make their way to the UK if they wish....and all seem to want to come....the benefits system is much more generous that that of other countries.
I'm not saying that all the in-comer are claiming benefits...some are working, but spend their cash in their own shops......send the money home, where it will buy far more in the way of goods and services in their own country....they claim tax credits and allowances for children back in their homeland, and even if they go home, they continue to draw this benefit.
Does this seem a nutty situation to you? It does to me. I worked all of my life, paid into the system all my life.......I have a modest pension and I am taxed on that to pay these benefits to people who send the money home....do not put it into the economy here in the UK.......and they can do that because the EU says it is alright.

We in the UK follow the rules of the EU to the letter...in france and germany they choose which rules they will follow and they seem to get away with it.
You may not think it is too late to halt the rot that has beset this country...but I do, because no-one has the cojones to get us out of this pernicious money swallowing political entity.

Eric · 30-09-2011, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

While we are in the EU, the rules are made by unelected officials in Brussels....who have no idea of the fabric of our country...or perhaps they have and don't care about the damage that is caused by uncontrolled immigration.......everyone in the EU has a right to make their way to the UK if they wish....and all seem to want to come....the benefits system is much more generous that that of other countries.
I'm not saying that all the in-comer are claiming benefits...some are working, but spend their cash in their own shops......send the money home, where it will buy far more in the way of goods and services in their own country....they claim tax credits and allowances for children back in their homeland, and even if they go home, they continue to draw this benefit.
Does this seem a nutty situation to you? It does to me. I worked all of my life, paid into the system all my life.......I have a modest pension and I am taxed on that to pay these benefits to people who send the money home....do not put it into the economy here in the UK.......and they can do that because the EU says it is alright.

We in the UK follow the rules of the EU to the letter...in france and germany they choose which rules they will follow and they seem to get away with it.
You may not think it is too late to halt the rot that has beset this country...but I do, because no-one has the cojones to get us out of this pernicious money swallowing political entity.

Never had you pegged for a fatalist, hon.

You might enjoy this. It has nothing to do with "Tories"; and you don't have to be religious to appreciate it ... I find it uniquely English. But, then again I've been away for a while

And maybe I'm getting sentimental in my old age

Margaret Pilkington · 30-09-2011, 15:15

I'm not really a fatalist...but tell me how do we change this situation when no-one will give us a chance to have a say?
Democratic process has failed because we do not elect those who shape our destiny in Brussels........our own political parties are too wimpish to go to the country and ask the electorate........they know what the answer would be....and figure if they don't ask the question then they don't have the thorny problem of getting us out of the EU.

Thankyou for the clip........I have always been moved by choral singing........and abide with me is a favourite of mine.

I stood in Canterbury Cathedral a couple of years ago and listened to the choir singing this and the big bulbous tears crept down my cheeks.......so you aren't on your own.
You need to join my old mushters club....there are a few of us in it.

jaysay · 30-09-2011, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I'm not really a fatalist...but tell me how do we change this situation when no-one will give us a chance to have a say?
Democratic process has failed because we do not elect those who shape our destiny in Brussels........our own political parties are too wimpish to go to the country and ask the electorate........they know what the answer would be....and figure if they don't ask the question then they don't have the thorny problem of getting us out of the EU.

Thankyou for the clip........I have always been moved by choral singing........and abide with me is a favourite of mine.

I stood in Canterbury Cathedral a couple of years ago and listened to the choir singing this and the big bulbous tears crept down my cheeks.......so you aren't on your own.
You need to join my old mushters club....there are a few of us in it.

I know how you feel Margaret

Margaret Pilkington · 30-09-2011, 18:59

Wanna Join John?????