The Tories - Page 54

garinda · 18-12-2011, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

If you can't beat em join em..you being an ex socialist seem to have taken that onboard.

Where did you hear that?

I'm just anti-hypocrisy, sleaze, lies, and New Labour.

ToffeeGuy · 18-12-2011, 23:46

"Individual donations to the Labour party were vastly exceeded by those from trade unions in the second quarter of the year by a factor of 15 to one, according to figures from the Electoral Commission." Source: Financial Times 24.8.11.

The Tories always hit Labour with the Union funding stick. But where do they get their money? Big business, the city and wealthy individuals. At least the Unions are democratically accountable to millions of workers.

garinda · 18-12-2011, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

"Individual donations to the Labour party were vastly exceeded by those from trade unions in the second quarter of the year by a factor of 15 to one, according to figures from the Electoral Commission." Source: Financial Times 24.8.11.

The Tories always hit Labour with the Union funding stick. But where do they get their money? Big business, the city and wealthy individuals. At least the Unions are democratically accountable to millions of workers.

Yes, let's try and work out where the destination of choice to live was, for every iffy oligarch, and off-shore tax dodger, due to the welcoming tax subsidies for the super rich, post 1997?

Oh yes, Britain, under new Labour.

ToffeeGuy · 19-12-2011, 00:04

Unfortunately when you have to fund new hospitals, new schools and better public services you sometimes have to sup with the devil. A'la Labour cosy up with big business and Murdoch.

For all their faults the country did feel better under new Labour. The Tories aren't called the 'Nasty' party for nothing.

garinda · 19-12-2011, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

For all their faults the country did feel better under new Labour.

'Feel better' under new Labour?

Is that like when the cast of Shameless max out their credit with their dealers, and have a big, mental party, not giving a thought to when someone comes along later to chop their legs off, when they can't pay?

That sort of mindless, stupid, 'feel better'?

garinda · 19-12-2011, 00:16

Nevermind Things Can Only Get Better.

Things were begining to turn sour when they were still sweeping up the tons of champagne bottles at the South Bank, back in May 1997.

BERNADETTE · 19-12-2011, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

"Individual donations to the Labour party were vastly exceeded by those from trade unions in the second quarter of the year by a factor of 15 to one, according to figures from the Electoral Commission." Source: Financial Times 24.8.11.

The Tories always hit Labour with the Union funding stick. But where do they get their money? Big business, the city and wealthy individuals. At least the Unions are democratically accountable to millions of workers.

Oh no not another one quoting figures

. As I said "figures can be bent to how you want them to read". They are all tarred with the same brush whether you choose to believe that or not

.

ToffeeGuy · 19-12-2011, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

'Feel better' under new Labour?

Is that like when the cast of Shameless max out their credit with their dealers, and have a big, mental party, not giving a thought to when someone comes along later to chop their legs off, when they can't pay?

That sort of mindless, stupid, 'feel better'?

And isn't that true in Greece, Ireland, Italy, Spain and the US etc?....Perhaps I'm missing something but Labour weren't in charge in those countries. Generally the West went on a massive spending boom funded by credit from the Chinese in order to buy consumer goods from the same Chinese.

garinda · 19-12-2011, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

And isn't that true in Greece, Ireland, Italy, Spain and the US etc?....Perhaps I'm missing something but Labour weren't in charge in those countries. Generally the West went on a massive spending boom funded by credit from the Chinese in order to buy consumer goods from the same Chinese.

In my book a hundred and one wrongs don't make a right.

When it came to economic competency, New Labour were bordering on the imbecilic.

Though fair play to them, they were red hot on some financial matters.

Fiddling their expenses.

garinda · 19-12-2011, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

Perhaps I'm missing something

Yup.

You've already supplied enough evidence, for us all to arrive at the same conclusion.

ToffeeGuy · 19-12-2011, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

In my book a hundred and one wrongs don't make a right.

When it came to economic competency, New Labour were bordering on the imbecilic.

Though fair play to them, they were red hot on some financial matters.

Fiddling their expenses.

Economic policies, which until the crash of 2008, the Tories were supporting as well and promising to match Labours spending commitments. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The credit and house price boom was started by the Tories in the 80s.

Weren't some Tories convicted of fiddling expenses as well?

For many years, decades even, the ruling governments seemed nervous to award pay increases to MPs due to the possible backlash by the public even though these increases would have been in line with other responsible jobs in both the public and private sectors. Therefore, it may be the case that many MPs saw expenses as a way of topping up their salaries to a level which they saw as the equivalent of what they could have got for doing a similar responsible job in the public/private sector. This seem to be a tacit belief within the House of Commons for years before the scandal broke.

Less · 19-12-2011, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

Economic policies, which until the crash of 2008, the Tories were supporting as well and promising to match Labours spending commitments. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The credit and house price boom was started by the Tories in the 80s.

And on and on he goes...

Good grief! Are you still here toffeebrain? I would have thought even you would have got bored with AccyWeb since you've been on posting your half baked bollocks.

Benipete · 19-12-2011, 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

Economic policies, which until the crash of 2008, the Tories were supporting as well and promising to match Labours spending commitments. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The credit and house price boom was started by the Tories in the 80s.

Weren't some Tories convicted of fiddling expenses as well?

For many years, decades even, the ruling governments seemed nervous to award pay increases to MPs due to the possible backlash by the public even though these increases would have been in line with other responsible jobs in both the public and private sectors. Therefore, it may be the case that many MPs saw expenses as a way of topping up their salaries to a level which they saw as the equivalent of what they could have got for doing a similar responsible job in the public/private sector. This seem to be a tacit belief within the House of Commons for years before the scandal broke.

So are you saying that people out of work or not earning enough should become thieves and steal off the working class?

ToffeeGuy · 19-12-2011, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

Good grief! Are you still here toffeebrain? I would have thought even you would have got bored with AccyWeb since you've been on posting your half baked bollocks.

Thanks, Less. Due to your insults, I'll take it I have won the argument. I can now go to sleep with an overwhelming sense of righteousness.

ToffeeGuy · 19-12-2011, 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benipete

So are you saying that people out of work or not earning enough should become thieves and steal off the working class?

I'm sure there are people in the population at large who have fiddled the benefits system as they see it as their entitlement to top up their wages. I'm not saying that's right either.

The MPs should have set up an independent body long ago to set their wages that would have taken the political problems out of any rises.