The Ultimate Insult

[garinda]

'Yesterday, as part of defence cuts required to save £5billion, 1,020 Royal Navy personnel were made redundant.

Meanwhile Mr Cameron persists with not only ring-fencing Britain’s overseas aid but increasing it to £12billion — even though recipients such as Pakistan say they do not want it.'

Read more: MAIL COMMENT: Put the Lib Dems and the EU in their place | Mail Online


If what's happening was in a film, you'd think that even though it was 'made up, it was too unbelievable.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

I didn't actually notice any alcohol in the room the other day. Did George bring you a carry-out or something?

I keep the Blond Witch and Speckled Hen well hidden

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Ah well, guess it was not to be, Jay. Our Bernard has disappeared into the night without uttering a word on the subject. How strange!

No Wyn as per usual, must be awaiting instructions mate

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

'Yesterday, as part of defence cuts required to save £5billion, 1,020 Royal Navy personnel were made redundant.

Meanwhile Mr Cameron persists with not only ring-fencing Britain’s overseas aid but increasing it to £12billion — even though recipients such as Pakistan say they do not want it.'

Read more: MAIL COMMENT: Put the Lib Dems and the EU in their place | Mail Online

If what's happening was in a film, you'd think that even though it was 'made up, it was too unbelievable.

Thanks for putting that link on Rindi, I actually read it but thought I would get hounded for putting a Mail link on

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I keep the Blond Witch and Speckled Hen well hidden

Moorhouses finest, topped up with a bit of Morland.....time for a spot of beer gardening later, methinks.

As for this EU nonsense, I'll happily nail my colours to the mast and state that the time has definitely come for a referendum. I've heard many convincing arguments both for and against remaining within Europe but those for it always seem to fall back on the argument that trade agreements will be utterly destroyed if we ever leave. Although I can understand what they are driving at, many of our own industries have become massively unprofitable because of Europe (farming being a prime example).

If my understanding of the figures is correct, we pay in far more than we get out and certain agreements are in place between countries regarding mutual benefits that would otherwise be withdrawn but if I were in Mr Cameron's shoes quite honestly I would rather take the plunge and risk the wrath of the public by holding a referendum.

It's the ultimate hot potato, but frankly I look on it in England as the ultimate votewinner too.

[mobertol]

Originally Posted by garinda

You'd have thought lessons would have been learned, after the dismal failure of the U.S.S.R.

When disparate people and countries were ruled from Moscow, and which eventually broke down because people like to be governed by their own governments, in their own countries.

That is just history repeating itself too, think of the many Empires which were built and then destroyed in the past. Among them our own glorious British Empire which fizzled out into The Commonwealth back in the 1920's. We currently have 14 dependent territories overseas (mostly tiny islands eg The Falklands) and a total of 54 nations make up the Commonwealth -it's non-political but promotes trade links, culture etc. Something to fall back on if a split from Europe ever did occur...
Just to be provocative, I've been reading this thread with interest and it seems a majority want a referendum and believe it would vote the UK out of Europe. On the other hand, however, we Britts seem to think we have a right to move wherever we want in Europe/The World without limitation. Many retire to the cheaper "sunny" states (my own parents included) and many have holiday homes there. We think we have a right to do so and yet we don't think others in the club (the EU) should have the same un-limited rights to free movement in the opposite direction. Is this not a bit of a paradox? What would happen to the Ex-pats and those who have interests in Europe if a split came about?
The immigration policy in the UK has been too lax for decades and this has brought about the current situation - the country needs skilled workers but has done little to keep home-grown talent from draining away abroad. A cap on immigration has been put into place but that's a bit like closing the gate after the cows have escaped...The benefit system needs tightening up, undoubtedly, and a system of entry similar to the Canadian or Australian model would be an improvement.
To leave Europe now would be a hard nettle to grasp, the economic system in Europe and The World is currently described as a bowl of Spaghetti -you have to be good with a fork to work your way out of it!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Hmm. I think there is a bit of a difference here mobertol. People all over the world have always been wanderers....and those who have wandered(even those who have settled in sunnier climes in retirement) do not expect to be allowed into the country and claim benefits.....they have lived by the rules of that country, those who have migrated abroad have worked and made their niche in the society they have adopted. they have added something to the community......not subtracted from it.

If you can go to a country and make it your own by working there, or in the case of retired people....improve the economy of the place they have settled in by buying their goods and services, by encouraging friends and family to add to the local economy by spending their tourist cash....then they are entitled to do that.

I do not see the EU as a 'club'. My view of the EU is clearly documented in previous posts, but to reiterate, it is undemocratic....we have no say in who is making the rules......if we don't like what they are doing there is absolutely no opportunity to vote them out.
Many of the countries in the EU choose which rules they will play by and which they won't......but the Uk follows them slavishly.

In the beginning the EU was called the 'Common Market'....it was set up with the precise aim of encouraging trade within the borders of the countries in the EU.

Now, it isn't like that at all, it isn't about trade, it is about politics.........The EU wants to become the United States of Europe....it wants to have more say in how we deal with finances.

The single currency wasn't to make things easier with one type of money throughout all the countries, it wasn't to make trading easier or more economic,it was a cynical political ploy to shackle all the countries together with the manacles of a single currency.
Badly thought out, and look where it has got us.....so why would we want to allow the EU more say in financial policy. It's foolish.
We should have been allowed a referendum before the treaty was ratified.......Ireland had a referendum....they voted No. This vote was not accepted......they were told to go back and vote again and come back with the right answer! Democratic??????? NO, NO, NO.

And just because something is hard....is that a reason to avoid doing it? Should we continue to not mention the elephant in the room because it is an uncomfortable subject.
Ignoring the problem has never been the right answer.
It isn't going to get better and it isn't going to get easier until something very radical is done about the way the EU is run and managed.
Do you know that they(the EU) haven't had a budget audited/ratified in something like 14 years.

For God's sake.......someone please have the guts to get us out, it is sucking us dry.

[Margaret Pilkington]

The cap on immigration only affects those from outside the EU so as the EU gets bigger, pretty soon we will be forced by EU regulations to take all comers.

And to add insult to injury, allow them to claim benefits from the moment they step on British soil.
Personally, I'm thinking of moving to Poland.......my pension will go further and the level of crime is said to be lower.

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The cap on immigration only affects those from outside the EU so as the EU gets bigger, pretty soon we will be forced by EU regulations to take all comers.

And to add insult to injury, allow them to claim benefits from the moment they step on British soil.
Personally, I'm thinking of moving to Poland.......my pension will go further and the level of crime is said to be lower.

The weathers not as good though Margaret.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Right then, I won't give my damp weather gear to the charity shop , I'll take it with me.

I feel like Germany won the war, I feel like a stranger in my own land.
I have worked all my life,contributed to the fabric of society.......now I feel really aggrieved that the EU can issue a directive which allows EU migrants to draw all benefits ......it is my money they are using to pay these people, who only want to come here because the benefits are cushy and they don't have to work.

Somebody help me down from this high horse.......I've got me foot caught!

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Right then, I won't give my damp weather gear to the charity shop , I'll take it with me.

I feel like Germany won the war, I feel like a stranger in my own land.
I have worked all my life,contributed to the fabric of society.......now I feel really aggrieved that the EU can issue a directive which allows EU migrants to draw all benefits ......it is my money they are using to pay these people, who only want to come here because the benefits are cushy and they don't have to work.

Somebody help me down from this high horse.......I've got me foot caught!

My money as well Margaret. Don't necessarily disagree with what you say I would only add that there's a few who were born in this Country, who are not slow when it comes to claiming benefits.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

...there's a few who were born in this Country, who are not slow when it comes to claiming benefits.

That's the sysytem that's to blame.

A system that three consecutive Labour governments did nothing to change.

Indeed it could be argued that Labour actively encouraged whole swathes of the population to live supported by the benefits system.

Sadly we're paying the price now.

That's ignoring the astronomical price we'll all be paying in the future.

When forced to fund every European immigrant's benefits claim...just as soon as they eagerly hop off the ferry.

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by garinda

That's the sysytem that's to blame.

A system that three consecutive Labour governments did nothing to change.

Indeed it could be argued that Labour actively encouraged whole swathes of the population to live supported by the benefits system.

Sadly we're paying the price now.

That's ignoring the astronomical price we'll all be paying in the future.

When forced to fund every European immigrant's benefits claim...just as soon as they eagerly hop off the ferry.

I just think that abusing the benefit system is wrong, regardless who's doing it

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by mobertol

it seems a majority want a referendum and believe it would vote the UK out of Europe. On the other hand, however, we Britts seem to think we have a right to move wherever we want in Europe/The World without limitation. Many retire to the cheaper "sunny" states (my own parents included) and many have holiday homes there.

Yes we do, but we go to work & put into the system, our labouring elsewhere doesn't result in a depreciating in the level of wages paid. I live in Germany I came originally with the Army, but on release I stayed here & went into a work environment supporting the society I'd chosen to join. I had to adapt & conform (no translators or paperwork in my Mother tongue, the language here is German, end of, learn it's that simple)

As to the other group of Brits you mention "Retiree's", completely different context, they have their own money paid to them by their Country of origin & they're not expecting to have everything paid to/for them by the host Country where they presently reside. I would also presume they pay the relevant dues & taxes from their income, so as stated entirely different.

I suppose being here gives me a clearer view as to what's happening in the UK as I'm outside looking in & that distance tends to add perspective. I travel back usually once a year & the changes I see are truly alarming. Problem is though you make any comment about it in UK & you're a xenophobic, racist bigot. Why ? Just because you're concerned about the state of your Country, sorry days indeed.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

I just think that abusing the benefit system is wrong, regardless who's doing it

Quite agree, but that's a different issue. Namely criminal fraud.

I was referring to a system nurtured under three consecutive Labour governments, in which people were better off claiming benefits, than working for a living.

That was wrong too.

Wrong that is, of the idiots in charge at the time.

I think Wynonie asked you a question earlier in the thread, wanting to know if you'd still vote for continuing membership of the E.U., as it stands today?