The value of public funded art

[Ken Moss]

I don't know whether it would be classed as 'art' but I'm also looking at the cost of Christmas switch-ons across the borough. We've got the Mayor to do ours but some other wards are rumoured to have celebrities and I'd like to know how much they're being paid if that's true.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I don't know whether it would be classed as 'art' but I'm also looking at the cost of Christmas switch-ons across the borough. We've got the Mayor to do ours but some other wards are rumoured to have celebrities and I'd like to know how much they're being paid if that's true.

It was posted a Glee tribute act were turning on the lights in Accrington. I don't yet know of any other celebrities, turning them on in other towns in the borough.

It makes you long for those nice Victorian Christmases, when these sort of things would have been done by a local big nob, watched by the poor, huddled masses.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by garinda

It was posted a Glee tribute act were turning on the lights in Accrington. I don't yet know of any other celebrities, turning them on in other towns in the borough.

That's what I'd heard, I'm sure it's very pertinent to Accrington.

I mean you wouldn't want someone irrelevant like a player from Accrington Stanley turning up, would you?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Answers requested for the Victorian swimming gala, the flash mob and also the Portable Pixel Playground which kicked the LET Project off in Hyndburn on 8th May.

Replies may take a while....

By the way, thankyou, on behalf of all those who'd like to know the costs, before trying to decide the true value to us of these events.

I knew if I kept asking, someone connected to the council might try and find out for us.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by garinda

By the way, thankyou, on behalf of all those who'd like to know the costs, before trying to decide the true value to us of these events.

I knew if I kept asking, someone connected to the council might try and find out for us.

You're very welcome, I see the role of councillor as being a spokesman for the residents in council but also vice versa. We need better communication across the board and in light of the cuts being made in Great Britain I think that the public has a right to know what their taxes are being spent on.

Your taxes pay my allowance so as one of my many bosses you can ask me any question you like regarding Hyndburn.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

That's what I'd heard, I'm sure it's very pertinent to Accrington.

I mean you wouldn't want someone irrelevant like a player from Accrington Stanley turning up, would you?

Clearly you haven't the ability to think outside of the the box.

Even though the box that contains such luminaries as Dildo Silly, spotty Martin Platt, and some Glee licky-likeys, is quite expensive to open.

Obviously you aren' very 'left-field'.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by garinda

Clearly you haven't the ability to think outside of the the box.

Even though the box that contains such luminaries as Dildo Silly, spotty Martin Platt, and some Glee licky-likeys, is quite expensive to open.

Obviously you aren' very'left-field'.

As Jaysay keeps pointing out, I have a lot to learn.

In many ways he is genuinely right, although if learning how to fritter away public money is based on the current Hyndburn model then I'm proud to stay ignorant.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

We need better communication across the board and in light of the cuts being made in Great Britain I think that the public has a right to know what their taxes are being spent.

Transparency in good, as the culture minister said last weekend, when referring to publicly funded arts.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I don't know whether it would be classed as 'art'

Come on Ken they class anything as art, look at the Turner Prize every year, well no don't because you will be more liable to question what art is
after than you were before

[Gayle]

A few points

I have not been on for a while because I have been busy - I'm not avoiding the issue of cost of the Victorian Swimming Gala. I will happily let you know it.

However, I don't think it's fair to let you know in advance because as has happened with the Flash Mob you will prejudge it. I think it's unfair to judge something purely on cost when you have no idea of quality, effort and effect. Quite simply to pre-judge something undermines the hard work and effort that local people are putting into this. Think how demoralising it will be if any of the young people from schools, youth clubs and Accrington and Rossendale college will feel if they read this and you're already dismissing it as unworthy or rubbish. A lot of time and effort is going into this.

I am not hiding the cost, I'm just asking if it can be discussed afterwards.

Also, whilst I'm on this - with regards to the article in the paper on Sat - a few inaccuracies

The crochet sculptures did not cost £2,500. The cost was for the artists time for workshops with local people who then created the sculptures. Your extremely dismissive views on this could potentially upset the local young people and older people who took part in the sessions and contributed to the sculptures. A lot of people learnt new skills with crocheting and enjoyed the sessions.

Ken - the knitting did not take up space in the market hall that could have been rented out - it filled space that was vacant because it was not rented out. If any paying stall holder had wanted the space we would have automatically vacated it.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Gayle

I am not hiding the cost, I'm just asking if it can be discussed afterwards.

Also, whilst I'm on this - with regards to the article in the paper on Sat - a few inaccuracies

The crochet sculptures did not cost £2,500. The cost was for the artists time for workshops with local people who then created the sculptures. Your extremely dismissive views on this could potentially upset the local young people and older people who took part in the sessions and contributed to the sculptures. A lot of people learnt new skills with crocheting and enjoyed the sessions.

Ken - the knitting did not take up space in the market hall that could have been rented out - it filled space that was vacant because it was not rented out. If any paying stall holder had wanted the space we would have automatically vacated it.

I'll respect your wishes and hold off with the cost until after the event.

As regards Saturday's edition of the Lancashire Telegraph, you should be aware by now that quotes in the newspaper are not always verbatim and may unintentionally have their context changed if not printed in their entirety. Although the general gist of what I said was printed it was within the wider context of a rant about the Market Hall being badly underused and filling spaces with these projects instead of traders.

I know this is your job and you clearly feel very passionately about it but I'm afraid as time goes by I am becoming less sympathetic to the cause, particularly as more and more money gets spent when the whole country is in financial death throes.

The council is facing some brutal cutbacks over the next three years on a scale that I can barely get my head around. All non-essential spending should be stopped now to cushion the blow and it pains me to say it but public art events such as these are not 'essential'.

It's an awful thing to say to someone like yourself but when the NHS, police and fire services are being pared to the bone it's time for a bit of perspective.

[Gayle]

And I agree with you on that.

However, this money was awarded to the council by the Labour government and was specifically for the purpose of arts, events and promotion. This is not money that the council is squandering on arts projects that could be spent on anything else. It can not be diverted in any other direction.

Now, I appreciate that people don't want their taxes spending on anything else other than valuable services - but in effect this money was 'spent' by the government almost a year ago. As far as HBC goes it is either use it or lose it - because it can't be used to prop up any other facilities.

You say that your rant was about filling the market hall with these things but the point was that they were filling empty spaces. A short while ago people on here were complaining about how empty the market hall looked. These activities filled empty stalls for the duration at no additional extra cost (i.e. no cost to the council as it came out of the funding as described above). If paying stall holders had wanted the stalls we would have vacated them immediately.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Gayle

And I agree with you on that.

However, this money was awarded to the council by the Labour government and was specifically for the purpose of arts, events and promotion. This is not money that the council is squandering on arts projects that could be spent on anything else. It can not be diverted in any other direction.

Now, I appreciate that people don't want their taxes spending on anything else other than valuable services - but in effect this money was 'spent' by the government almost a year ago. As far as HBC goes it is either use it or lose it - because it can't be used to prop up any other facilities.

A good example of changing times and whilst the Labour administration may have earmarked the money (rightly or wrongly) for the arts, the Conservative administration have the power to change that decision.

Please don't think that my views on this are limited just to the arts because there are many other projects which are a blatant waste of money that should never have been green-lit in the first place. I look around me and see waste everywhere, right down to special Hyndburn pencils, booklets that no one will ever read and badges that no one will ever wear.

What is the point of a Conservative council if they are singing from a different cost-cutting hymn sheet than a Conservative government?

[Acrylic-bob]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Think how demoralising it will be if any of the young people from schools, youth clubs and Accrington and Rossendale college will feel if they read this and you're already dismissing it as unworthy or rubbish.

Well, heaven forfend that any of our young people should have to face up to any of the harsh realities of life, like accountability and, dare I say it, criticism.

It strikes me that following on from the reactions to the Panopticon Fiasco and other Mid Pennine Arts jamborees, you might have guessed that there would be a degree of negative reaction and criticism. But you blithely went ahead and encouraged their participation. Did you not consider putting a bid in for Lottery cash to cover the outlay on ear plugs and blinkers for the poor little darlings?

Your comments and scruples strike me as nothing more than excuses, Gayle, which become ever flimsier and more threadbare with every repetition. Sadly, I do not think that I will be alone in holding that opinion.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Gayle

And I agree with you on that.

However, this money was awarded to the council by the Labour government and was specifically for the purpose of arts, events and promotion. This is not money that the council is squandering on arts projects that could be spent on anything else. It can not be diverted in any other direction.

Gayle, that's rather naive of you! Just because the Government awarded it doesn't mean Hyndburn HAD to spend it. If Hyndburn hadn't gone ahead and 'squandered' it(your words) on 'crochet sculptures' etc. then surely the Government would still have it? To spend on something more essential. I love the attitude of 'If we can get some money get it. Now, what can we blow it on?'.