Things the Tories have not done for us - Page 2

Less · 04-08-2009, 10:01

Things the Tories have not done for us:-

Lied about W.M.D. just so we can back the Americans in a War against terror that is killing our troops and we can't possibly win it because we are creating more enemies as each day goes on.

Mancie · 04-08-2009, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

So you seriously think that if Labour win the next election, they won't be forced into cuts by the frightening fiscal deficit that now hangs over this country? Dream on, Mancie, dream on...

I don't accept that any scale of debt means this Government or any other have to make cuts in the NHS...that and defence is not to be messed about..and I don't believe that cuts make for a better service.

Wynonie Harris · 04-08-2009, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

they may well have to cut certain things who knows? the point to me is simple, they would NEVER be there to cut, had Labour Not Introduced em.

Too right they wouldn't. But in view of the financial crisis, cuts will be coming whoever's in power. Personally, I'd get rid of our so-called "independent" nuclear deterrent, but the Labour party don't believe in things like that anymore.

cashman · 04-08-2009, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

Things the Tories have not done for us:-

Lied about W.M.D. just so we can back the Americans in a War against terror that is killing our troops and we can't possibly win it because we are creating more enemies as each day goes on.

yeh true but what odds do ya give if any other party had been in power, they would have rejected backing Bush?

Mancie · 04-08-2009, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

Things the Tories have not done for us:-

Lied about W.M.D. just so we can back the Americans in a War against terror that is killing our troops and we can't possibly win it because we are creating more enemies as each day goes on.

I'll go along with the war against Iraq being a lie.. but we already had the enemies that declared war on the USA and Britain ..we just did not understand before 9/11... do you think we would all live in a lovely world if nothing had been done?

Less · 04-08-2009, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

yeh true but what odds do ya give if any other party had been in power, they would have rejected backing Bush?

I don't know, but other parties weren't in power so we will never know will we? Which leaves the blame squarely at Labours door I'm afraid.

Mancie · 04-08-2009, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

I don't know, but other parties weren't in power so we will never know will we? Which leaves the blame squarely at Labours door I'm afraid.

Yep..so add up the odds n' evens ...an illegall war against Iraq..compered to reasonable health care and freedom..or cuts in everything ..it's a serious decision and I take the care and freedom.

Gayle · 04-08-2009, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

everything is unfair for you Gayle.. everything is let see and I can see the other side of the story.. there are only two sides when it comes to cuts in benefits and cuts to the NHS..those who want those cuts and those who don't... pick your side or sit on yer fence.

It's not that clear cut - I wish it was. In politics it's essential to have an opposition party who challenge the government. If the government put forward a bill or a policy or whatever, it is the opposition's job to challenge it and hopefully put forward an alternative solution. In the cases that you've listed, the opposition may have voted against the bill but they haven't voted against the principle of it.

I'm not on the fence here - I'm telling you straight that I think you're wrong on this one.

It's like saying the minimum wage should be £10 an hour - the opposition might do their sums and say that was wrong, it should be £9 per hour, so they vote against the increase. It doesn't mean that they are opposed to the principle of the minimum wage or even the principle of an increase, it just means that their sums tell them it should be a different figure so they have to vote against it. Btw - that's just an example, the figures are not correct.

Gayle · 04-08-2009, 10:47

So, with your argument are you saying that you believe a Tory government will

encourage child labour
have people pay for education for all over 6yrs of age
decommission the National Health Service
abolish a national pension scheme
sell off all council housing
abolish temporally unemployment benefit
abolish Legal aid
abolish child benefits
abolish a winter pension payment

Even if the Tory opposition voted against the government on all these issues. You can't judge the next government on what governments of the past have done.

cashman · 04-08-2009, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

Even if the Tory opposition voted against the government on all these issues. You can't judge the next government on what governments of the past have done.

utter garbage, whilst its too iffy fer em to reverse these things, the old mentality is still alive n well.

Gayle · 04-08-2009, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

utter garbage, whilst its too iffy fer em to reverse these things, the old mentality is still alive n well.

You're possibly right but I'm fed up of politics that keeps knocking the opposition instead of coming out and saying what will actually happen and how it will happen.

It's not good politics to slag your opponent off and blame the people who ran the party twenty years ago without saying how you'd do things differently. But that's all that seems to happen these days.

This is why I'm so dissillusioned with politics in general. Everyone spends so much time knocking the other parties that they rarely actually stand up and say what they would do for us.

cashman · 04-08-2009, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

You're possibly right but I'm fed up of politics that keeps knocking the opposition instead of coming out and saying what will actually happen and how it will happen.

It's not good politics to slag your opponent off and blame the people who ran the party twenty years ago without saying how you'd do things differently. But that's all that seems to happen these days.

This is why I'm so dissillusioned with politics in general. Everyone spends so much time knocking the other parties that they rarely actually stand up and say what they would do for us.

join the club gayle, i can understand that, ive been dissillusioned with the ******* fer oer a decade now, n theres many more people just the same.

Boeing Guy · 04-08-2009, 11:44

Well the Tories haven't broken the Covenant with our armed forces.
Closed down all the council owned Old Peoples Homes in Lancashire.

cmonstanley · 04-08-2009, 11:50

but they will get rid of the national minimuim wage.....

Mancie · 04-08-2009, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

It's not that clear cut - I wish it was. In politics it's essential to have an opposition party who challenge the government. If the government put forward a bill or a policy or whatever, it is the opposition's job to challenge it and hopefully put forward an alternative solution. In the cases that you've listed, the opposition may have voted against the bill but they haven't voted against the principle of it.

I'm not on the fence here - I'm telling you straight that I think you're wrong on this one.

It's like saying the minimum wage should be £10 an hour - the opposition might do their sums and say that was wrong, it should be £9 per hour, so they vote against the increase. It doesn't mean that they are opposed to the principle of the minimum wage or even the principle of an increase, it just means that their sums tell them it should be a different figure so they have to vote against it. Btw - that's just an example, the figures are not correct.

Yeah..so are you in favour of cuts or not?