This Co-ilition seems to be working. - Page 6

Mancie · 19-05-2010, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Eric, I also believe that there is adifference when you are fighting the enemy in their own land, but when they have an outpost in your own country it is a little bit different.
There is nothing at all to say that these men will not radicalise other young muslim men to do what they failed to do......blow up Manchester Town Centre.

Manchester town centre was blown up by Irish Catholics 15ys ago.. but it's all forgotten now days.

Margaret Pilkington · 19-05-2010, 21:01

You are wrong Mancie...it isn't fogotten at all.
I was supposed to be going to Manchester on that day to choose an outfit for a wedding, as it was, I couldn't go.....I was required to do a night shift as one of my nurses had gone sick....If I had gone to Manchester that day I would not be here now.
I remember it every time I go into the city centre.

Eric · 19-05-2010, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Eric, I also believe that there is adifference when you are fighting the enemy in their own land, but when they have an outpost in your own country it is a little bit different.
There is nothing at all to say that these men will not radicalise other young muslim men to do what they failed to do......blow up Manchester Town Centre.

We have those same "outposts" here ... members of a terrorist cell known as the "Toronto 18" ... some have been tried and convicted, others are awaiting trial ... and all according to our laws.

cashman · 19-05-2010, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

We have those same "outposts" here ... members of a terrorist cell known as the "Toronto 18" ... some have been tried and convicted, others are awaiting trial ... and all according to our laws.

are your laws as soft n stupid though eric, also sentences? as mancie said ALL should be tried, but don't work like that here. also mancie i have a friend from swinton who's daughter was disabled in the manchester bombing, maybe the medias forgot, the people certainly aint.

Margaret Pilkington · 19-05-2010, 21:11

and if convicted will they then be deported?

Wynonie Harris · 19-05-2010, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

Manchester town centre was blown up by Irish Catholics 15ys ago.. but it's all forgotten now days.

Crikey, Mancie, how can you tell you're a plastic Manc? I live here and, believe me, it isn't forgotten!

Mancie · 19-05-2010, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

are your laws as soft n stupid though eric, also sentences? as mancie said ALL should be tried, but don't work like that here. also mancie i have a friend from swinton who's daughter was disabled in the manchester bombing, maybe the medias forgot, the people certainly aint.

When I say forgotten... I mean not mentioned these days because it is not PC to slag off the "Irish freedom fighters".. Manchester, Guilford, Warrington, Birmigham and any other were carried out by religous political fanatics that had a gripe with Britian... same as Al-Quada... some of these murderding slags were tried and sentenced under British law some were not... I don't see any difference.

cashman · 19-05-2010, 21:36

funnily enough, n ya may find it hard to believe, but i aint very P.C. in fact was only a few weeks ago had a heated discussion about that very thing. quite a few were in earshot, nobody objected.

Eric · 19-05-2010, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

and if convicted will they then be deported?

No they won't be deported; they are Canadians .... they will serve time in prison.

cashman · 19-05-2010, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

No they won't be deported; they are Canadians .... they will serve time in prison.

Then are ya saying you have a land wi nowt only Canadian Residents living yon? cos we sure as hell aint.

garinda · 19-05-2010, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

Manchester town centre was blown up by Irish Catholics 15ys ago.. but it's all forgotten now days.

That's the sort of bigoted, blind prejudice we've come to expect from you.

The kind of idocy that tries to equate that because Islam is used as an excuse by extremist terrorists, all Muslims are to blame, when the vast majority are law abiding citizens, who abhor these atrocities, just like everyone else.

Manchester was bombed by the Provisional I.R.A.

An extremist group. Just like Al-Qaeda

Not by 'Irish Catholics'.

cashman · 19-05-2010, 23:41

Also whilst some of these murdering terrorists "Were" jailed in the 80s mancie, ya omitted to mention those poor sods that were "Fitted" Up by this good ole British Justice yer so keen on.

think mancies gone fer a drink whilst this 24 hrs is still around. pmsl.

Eric · 19-05-2010, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Eric, I was not twisting anything......I merely asked a question....and you have answered that question.

I just don't see how the rights of two men who came to the UK with the intent of blowing as many folk into the next world as they could, can equate with the rights of the many, who are now being asked to support(financially) their monitoring in this country, without a challenge to that ruling...as they still pose a risk to the population.

I realize that it grates on the nerves to have to accord those men the rights that are guaranteed to everyone in the UK; but, that's just one of the difficulties of democracy. Durinng the war, tens of thousands of German soldiers, sailors and airmen were held as POWs and accorded humane treatment at an immense cost ... no doubt many felt that these men, many of them responsible for bombing your cities, should be punished, starved, killed ... in the same way that the Germans were treating the Russian POWs. But it didn't happen. Because, if you are defending freedom and civilization, as Great Britain was, much of the time alone and under siege, you have to act in a civilized fashion ... or else, what's the point.

I'm not a starry-eyed idealist, or a "bleeding heart liberal", just someone who believes that democracy has to be more than rhetoric. If there's no substance, it's worth nothing. And it's the substance, having to act according to our expressed principles, that seems to cause the problems.

garinda · 19-05-2010, 23:48

'Should Britain be giving refuge to Islamic fundamentalists, while sending the men and women who have been brave enough to challenge Islamism back to their deaths? This sounds at first like a straw man question. Who would ever suggest such a policy? Who would defend it? But the facts suggest we are doing it, every day.'

'Kiana Firouz is a 27-year-old woman who grew up in revolutionary Iran, and slowly realised that if she ever acted on her natural impulses – to kiss and hold and love another woman – she would be subjected to a hundred lashes. If she did it again, she would be hanged, in a public square, before a jeering mob. But Kiana believed the freedom to fall in love was more important than her own safety. She stood up in Tehran and made a film showing that there are gay people there just as there are gay people everywhere, and they deserve to live and love freely. The police began following and threatening her. She knew what had happened to other gay Iranians – a bullet, a ditch, a lynch mob – so she came to a country she associated with freedom for gay people, Britain, and appealed to us to save her life.
We refused. The Home Office told her to go back to Iran and be "discreet" about her sexuality. But the law in Iran doesn't say discreet lesbians get out of jail free. They are tortured and killed just the same.'
Johann Hari: Islamists, their victims, and hypocrisy - Johann Hari, Commentators - The Independent

So, non-national students, whom there's evidence that they planned a terrorist kiling spree, are free to stay and walk the streets of Britain, yet an Iranian women tries to claim asylum, and is refused, and faces certain death when she's deported?

Some justice system.

garinda · 19-05-2010, 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

I realize that it grates on the nerves to have to accord those men the rights that are guaranteed to everyone in the UK; but, that's just one of the difficulties of democracy. Durinng the war, tens of thousands of German soldiers, sailors and airmen were held as POWs and accorded humane treatment at an immense cost ... no doubt many felt that these men, many of them responsible for bombing your cities, should be punished, starved, killed ... in the same way that the Germans were treating the Russian POWs. But it didn't happen. Because, if you are defending freedom and civilization, as Great Britain was, much of the time alone and under siege, you have to act in a civilized fashion ... or else, what's the point.

I'm not a starry-eyed idealist, or a "bleeding heart liberal", just someone who believes that democracy has to be more than rhetoric. If there's no substance, it's worth nothing. And it's the substance, having to act according to our expressed principles, that seems to cause the problems.

Find me any proof that Al-Qaeda operatives are tortured or killed in Pakistan, and you might have a case.

I can find no such evidence.