This could be very popular, not

[jaysay]

Patients should pay £20 to see their GP if NHS is to survive, says think-tank | Mail Online
Can't think that this would go down very well, me thinks the think tank needs to think again. It maybe a start if foreign nationals were charged for treatment they receive, if they ain't paid in they play for treatment

[garinda]

As a free market economist Conservative I'd have thought you'd have supported the idea?

After all the Conservatives had been quite happy for all medical care to be paid for, by those who could afford it, until Labour created the National Health Service after the war.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

As a free market economist Conservative I'd have thought you'd have supported the idea?

After all the Conservatives had been quite happy for all medical care to be paid for, by those who could afford it, until Labour created the National Health Service after the war.

I thought you'd moved on Rindi or are you still clutchng at straws from the pre war days

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I thought you'd moved on Rindi or are you still clutchng at straws from the pre war days

Labour created the N.H.S. post war, which is in living memory for a lot of people, even those born before 1948.

If it was down to the Conservatives we'd still be in the position of paying for all medical care, if and when we could afford it.

You'll be saying next you support the various education bills Labour introduced to ensure free education for all, instead of sending them into the mill at ten. Decades of Conservative governments were more than happy to have an education sysytem that was available only for those who could afford it.

The past has a very real impact on the present

Let's not forget that even yesterday is 'history' today.

[entwisi]

Originally Posted by garinda

If it was down to the Conservatives we'd still be in the position of paying for all medical care, if and when we could afford it.

now that you simply can't say and I hope you acknowledge it Rindy. No one can say where and when would have introduced something if it hadn't been done by someone earlier.


To claim otherwise is simply lies and conjecture

[shillelagh]

it would cost me a fortune if i had to pay £20 every time i had to see my doctor ... im there more often than not at least once a month ..

[garinda]

Originally Posted by entwisi

now that you simply can't say and I hope you acknowledge it Rindy. No one can say where and when would have introduced something if it hadn't been done by someone earlier.


To claim otherwise is simply lies and conjecture

Prior to the formation of the N.H.S successive Conservative governments were quite happy with the status quo, i.e. paying for all medical treatment when it was needed, and if you could afford it.

There was never a Conservative policy to introduce a nationalised health service, indeed many opposed the idea at the time as socialist madness.

Fact.

[andrewb]

I believe everybody should have access to treatment. Good health gives a quality of life. Ideals do however need to be paid for, and run effectively. As we saw at the end of the last Labour government the country could barely afford to run these essential services. We are seeing the same again at the tail end of this government. Although I thank Labour for introducing the NHS some 61 years ago, they are economically incompetent which threatens the institution itself, something for which I do not thank them.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

I thank Labour for introducing the NHS some 61 years ago

Something you couldn't have done if it was down to the successive Conservative governments, prior to the formation of the N.H.S., because we still wouldn't have one now.

We'd be like America, where you get treatment if you can afford it, or if you're in the position to pay for health insurance.

I know personally people in the U.S.A. who aren't able to get the drugs they need for serious degenerative neuroligical diseases because they can't afford them, or their insurance companies, whose primary motive is of course profit, have found a clause which stops them funding certain treatments.

Happily a situation we don't have in this country, thanks to the unique nationalised health service we have, devised and created by a Labour government.

[entwisi]

You still seam to be missing the point. The conservatives of5, 10, 20 and 30 years ago are all different and had different views to those of 60 odd years ago. The simply huge difference in the way we have lived over that time frame shows that. To say that non of them would have 'suggested' an NHS system is something you simply can't say one way or another based on their views back then.

Social care is important, The NHS is a fine ideal but the current situation under Labour is a huge joke. more and more money being thrown at it and the layers of incompetent management making stupid decisions eating it up.

I know personally people in the U.S.A. who aren't able to get the drugs they need for serious degenerative neuroligical diseases because they can't afford them, or their insurance companies, whose primary motive is of course profit, have found a clause which stops them funding certain treatments.

shall we start talking about teh postcode lottery this goverment allows to happen then?

[BERNADETTE]

Garinda Happily a situation we don't have in this country, thanks to the unique nationalised health service we have, devised and created by a Labour government.

Unfortunately we do have that situation in this country with some drugs not being given because they are deemed to expensive. Like everything else in this country our NHS is being abused by people simply coming here because they know treatment is free. And I am not talking about people living here either, some people come here on "holiday" with the intention of getting treatment. Of course they are supposed to pay for it but when released from hospital they simply dissappear off the radar. It wouldn't happen in other countries but as usual our system suffers abuse.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by entwisi

The conservatives of5, 10, 20 and 30 years ago are all different and had different views to those of 60 odd years ago.

Nowhere have I said anything to contradict that statement.

I merely pointed out that prior to 1948 successive Conservative governments had every opportunity to introduce the nationalised health system we still have to day. Being opposed to all nationalisation, they chose not to, with many opposing it's eventual introduction in the forties.

Fact, and you can't argue with those, no matter how woefully you try.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

Unfortunately we do have that situation in this country with some drugs not being given because they are deemed to expensive. Like everything else in this country our NHS is being abused by people simply coming here because they know treatment is free. And I am not talking about people living here either, some people come here on "holiday" with the intention of getting treatment. Of course they are supposed to pay for it but when released from hospital they simply dissappear off the radar. It wouldn't happen in other countries but as usual our system suffers abuse.

I quite agree, there is a massive need for a radical overhaul of the N.H.S.

[spex357]

I have been lucky to have suffered no illness in my life so far and hope i make it to the end before charges come in but there are charges around today, its not everything that you get fully without charge even if your on the dole. Will we be able to reduce our N.I contributions?, probably not. Could we have it set on a limit for the year per person and roll it over indefinately if you didnt use it, i read somewhere we pay over £3400 a year for each working person into the National Health fund and by now i could afford some of the more expensive treatments.

[entwisi]

Originally Posted by garinda

Nowhere have I said anything to contradict that statement.

I merely pointed out that prior to 1948 successive Conservative governments had every opportunity to introduce the nationalised health system we still have to day. Being opposed to all nationalisation, they chose not to, with many opposing it's eventual introduction in the forties.

Fact, and you can't argue with those, no matter how woefully you try.

I haven't. what I have argued against is your statement that no future Tory goverment would have introduced it. you simply can't say either way.

You are not party to the discussion or internal politics that would or could have taken place. Once somthing is formed who can ever say that if it hadn't at that point then it would never have existed at all.

You are free to castigate all Tory ( and Labour goverments equally!) up to that point but nothing after.