This is as good a reason as any - Page 2

andrewb · 06-05-2009, 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

the European rights act was implemeted by John major in 1995...

I'm a little confused? The European Convention on Human Rights was established in the 1950s ... was written into UK law by Blair in 1998 as the Human Rights Act.. What are you referring to?

blazey · 06-05-2009, 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

no human rights act lets scum dogs like him off.. non.. jaysay ....you used to be an activist for the tories?..******* ..I'll say it again so we all get it clear... the European rights act was implemeted by John major in 1995...

What is the European Rights Act 1995?

No offence or anything but from what I can see... and I've studied EU law for two years now... it doesn't exist?

Are you thinking of something else?

Mancie · 06-05-2009, 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

I'm a little confused? The European Convention on Human Rights was established in the 1950s ... was written into UK law by Blair in 1998 as the Human Rights Act.. What are you referring to?

the maastricht treaty that the then Tory Government signed up to around 1995...no confusion here... the human rights act may have been put forward in the 50's but your party signed up for the european rights act at Maastrict.. an act that imposed european law on all member states ..yeah?
ps sorry had to edit ..it was 1993 when the act was signed..and all business including health and saftey was included into the treaty.. Tory *******!

blazey · 06-05-2009, 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

the maastricht treaty that the then Tory Government signed up to around 1995...no confusion here... the human rights act may have been put forward in the 50's but your party signed up for the european rights act at Maastrict.. an act that imposed european law on all member states ..yeah?

I always wonder why people make so much fuss about human rights and Europe when we're also a member of United Nations which demands respect of human rights as well.

At the end of the day, if people want to act like animals then I think they shouldn't belong to a civilised society like those which are a part of these agreements and alliances, and that goes for those who wants to act like animals when they punish people as well.

Why punish pain with pain?

I hate to make such a comparison but if anyone watches casualty they'll know that last weeks episode involved a little boy who punished the boy that was bullying him by locking him into a dark space, something which his grandad did to him. The consequences just resulted in more harm than good, in the case of both boys.

Look at the woman in Laos up for death by firing squad for trafficking drugs. She's pregnant, she's young. She's still broke the law and she's still a criminal. Who on this forum would like to be the one to shoot her? Or kill her by any other method?

You can't pick and choose, which is why we have quite lenient (in comparison to other countries) but uniform laws which can be applied to all. Sadly these are taken advantage of at times but if we were to start picking and choosing or making laws stricter then it'd result in far worse crimes against humanity, so I think people should have a long hard think about that before jumping on the 'lets hate the EU/tories/human rights act' bandwagon.

blazey · 06-05-2009, 06:08

And it was February 1992 actually.

Mancie · 06-05-2009, 06:13

yeah bazey..but the point of this thread is that this government are soft on these people...and all is forgotten that it was a Tory Government that forced in the human rights act...and whats more the Tories have consistantly opposed any degrading of the act.. the resolution for 92 days for suspected terrorists is a prime example which the Tories opposed.... now we have bods shouting and blabbing about human rights as if it was invented by Gordon Brown.... when these people get in power we will see.

blazey · 06-05-2009, 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

yeah bazey..but the point of this thread is that this government are soft on these people...and all is forgotten that it was a Tory Government that forced in the human rights act...and whats more the Tories have consistantly opposed any degrading of the act.. the resolution for 92 days for suspected terrorists is a prime example which the Tories opposed.... now we have bods shouting and blabbing about human rights as if it was invented by Gordon Brown.... when these people get in power we will see.

I don't see Gordon Brown repealing the Act?

If you don't want your Human Rights protected by statutory law then that's fine, go and live elsewhere and live under a legal system that isn't lenient on criminals. You'll find that there is far more injustice under those legal systems than under this one.

Yes people bang on about human rights, but for the most part they are unsuccessful. Nobody is going to accept that its unreasonable for a child witness to give evidence via video link, it is generally accepted that children, especially those that have been through traumatic experiences, are bound to give some impartial evidence and yes, even somewhat fabricated. But no judge is going to accept that that child is unreliable because at the end of the day, children don't just make up evidence that disgusting and naturally the effects of nightmares, stress and blocking out the memories lead to those problems.

It's not a problem with protecting human rights! It's a problem with sick people thinking they don't deserve to go to prison. You aren't going to solve that by taking away the Human Rights Act. They'll just find another technicality to fight.

Mancie · 06-05-2009, 06:30

ok blazey.. try explianing that Jaysay,

..

andrewb · 06-05-2009, 06:37

Mancie your hatred will forever puzzle me. As much as this government have destroyed this country over the last 12 years, I don't hate them, I don't have a stirring anger inside me building up to be unleashed. Despite their punishment of the poorest in society, despite their economic incompetence, despite all the job losses... I really can't find it in me to detest them in such a way that you choose to.

The human rights act is a joke. We need an act that establishes fundamental rights and freedoms for individuals, but if you choose to harm others liberty then you can't expect the protection of your own in return. I'm not for a moment saying we should completely forget human rights once you damage somebody elses, but you can't expect it to imply in its entirety.

blazey · 06-05-2009, 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

ok blazey.. try explianing that to Jaysay,

Well, Jaysay doesn't have to agree with me but sadly he has to live with it unless he wants to leave the country to somewhere that doesn't protect human rights and I don't really see why anyone would want to?

The majority of Britons leaving this country to go live elsewhere choose Australia, New Zealand, France or Spain. These countries all protect human rights in similar ways to the UK. People don't seem to want to live in places that reflect this distaste for the Human Rights Act that's for sure.

On a similar note, apparently there are more British people living abroad than any other nationality. Mind you, my source is a newspaper on this... though its not often that newspapers want to point out things that make us think that actually we bang on about absolute nonsense most of the time when it comes to immigration and jobs.

I get to read every day how people benefit from EU legislation and inevitably people fall beneath the net sometimes with legislation but that is because it is just so difficult to predict what issues will crop up and you can't cover everything in one document, its just not possible which is WHY we have such an amazing common law system that other countries try to replicate in their own countries. We should be proud of our legal system but instead people want to complain about the flaws. Well they're a damn sight smaller than a lot of the flaws of other countries, and believe me I'd know!

blazey · 06-05-2009, 06:42

You can't start establishing subjective laws Andrew, they're more vulnerable than the Human Rights Act will ever be.

andrewb · 06-05-2009, 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazey

You can't start establishing subjective laws Andrew, they're more vulnerable than the Human Rights Act will ever be.

Well someone should. Why should somebody who for example takes a life, be able to enjoy the sanctity of the entire human rights act? One needs basic rights in that situation and that's it. Else it's not punishment for the crime.

Margaret Pilkington · 06-05-2009, 06:47

No-one has yet told me how the Human Rights of the victim of this crime are being protected, or for that matter who is protecting them. The justice system certainly doesn't seem to be doing it, the social workers aren't doing it.......so who is??

As for the pregnant Woman in Laos, she took the risk knowing what the penalty was......and so she should expect the justice of that country.......perhaps if more countries exacted the same kind of punishment, drug trafficking would cease.

blazey · 06-05-2009, 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Well someone should. Why should somebody who for example takes a life, be able to enjoy the sanctity of the entire human rights act? One needs basic rights in that situation and that's it. Else it's not punishment for the crime.

As long as the correct procedures are followed by all those involved with prosecution there is no reason why a murderer would walk free because of the Human Rights Act.

Mancie · 06-05-2009, 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Mancie your hatred will forever puzzle me. As much as this government have destroyed this country over the last 12 years, I don't hate them, I don't have a stirring anger inside me building up to be unleashed. Despite their punishment of the poorest in society, despite their economic incompetence, despite all the job losses... I really can't find it in me to detest them in such a way that you choose to.

The human rights act is a joke. We need an act that establishes fundamental rights and freedoms for individuals, but if you choose to harm others liberty then you can't expect the protection of your own in return. I'm not for a moment saying we should completely forget human rights once you damage somebody elses, but you can't expect it to imply in its entirety.

bollox...to say this government has destroyed a country that was not only brought to it's kness by your lot but was kicked to death in the proccess ..a well organised proccess of getting rid of any sort of "society" we still had...you Andrew and your ilk are a form of human life that will always plague mankind.. a virus that has managed to traverse into human beings.. but you will always be sought out and whatever power you manage to wrangle you will always be defeated.. by mankind.