Those who should- don't.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Gordon, I don't know...but there were not that many nurses on days when my Ma was in after her stroke.......they were run off their feet.

Some of the worst nurses I met were at the Christie in Manchester......they were heartless. I wouldn't let them lookafter a goldfish.......the auxiliaries were more compassionate and caring.

[heth]

Originally Posted by garinda

That is a very sad statement, and just shows how wrong the whole system is.

You, or someone like you, should be in charge of nursing recruitment nationwide.

Stuff degrees.

Bring back kindness, and human decency.

There are still good nurses.

Though fewer than there used to be.

When you're vunerable you're in much need of gentle kindness, as you are of medicine.

I agree with you Rindy 100% with this post.
I have seen changes over the years from caring with my Grandma and I dont like the way it is going.

8years ago you couldnt have asked for more pleasent and understanding nurses that treated you with the best care until you left but now they just aint interested that much.
The only time they are is when your leaving so they can have the bed.

I understand that there are fewer nurses now and they are busy but a little bit of kindness goes along way.

[Mancie]

Over the last 6 years I've seen this lack of care to elderly patients in one particular London hospital that has been surveyed as one of the best in the country..more than a few times I've brought to the attention of nurses to older patients that I've known have not eaten for days on end and sometimes (when I've been mobile) had to get water or drinks from machines for some that were in distress.
I've seen some have the "nil by mouth" signs over thier beds for days because thier ops have been cancelled and no nurse will give them food or drink until a docter tells them it's ok but when the doctors or nurses change shifts this can be forgotten.
There are hospitals were it depends on which ward you are placed in can make a massive difference on the kind of nursing/care you might get.
There should be more wards where elderly care is specialized with nurses who know how best to care for the elderly.

[Neil]

I was a little ill for a week or so and ended up in minor injuries at BRH last Sunday to get looked at after spending 3 days on the toilet passing green yukky liquid stuff and having temps of 39.4 C. The place is a complete mess. You could not move for people blocking the toilets for my 1/2 hourly visits and all the sick people herded together in a tiny waiting room. I know its was only temporary 3 years ago but its still not good enough. They should have built the required buildings then restructured not used a shed that is that cold in winter they close it at night and use A&E for minor injuries.

After feeling like I was going to pass out sat in a chair Rhonda had me moved to a cubicle to lie down. Eventually I was seen by a GP who at first appeared ok and decided I had food poisoning (Jokes about Rhonda's cooking are not needed as I was eating rubbish ready meals while working nights ). As soon as the GP suggested I should be drinking fresh orange and cups of tea Rhonda said she wanted me admitting for observation. He agreed and they put me back in a cubicle and after a while a nurse screwed up stabbing me to put me on fluids (being a bit unfair as I was dehydrated and my veins were playing hiding games). A nice doc came who looked and sounded like the Count of Sesame Street and stabbed me painlessly first time.

I was led in minor injuries for about 2 hours until a bed was available on MAU. The moved me but when we arrived at MAU only one of the two double doors would open. They had just stuck me in a wheel chair to move me when someone pressed the emergency open button and it worked.

The nurse and porter from minor injuries took me to a room but no MAU nurse came for about 30 minutes. The room was far from clean with a big puddle of water on the floor, a lump of toothpaste in the sink and the bin in the bathroom was half full of wet hand towels.

The nurse checked my obs and left me a chart to fill in when I went to the toilet. A Doctor came and decided to give me anothe litre of fluid when the first bag was empty and then get me up for a walk about and see how I was before deciding if he would send me home or not.

Rhonda left to sort out our children. The first bag ran out and was not changed for well over an hour. Being in my own room was like being in the land that nurses forgot. She came back and put me on my fluids and an infusion machine. I asked for a blanket as I was cold which never came. The bag ran out and was changed when the machine bleeped for ages.

Another nurse looked through the door and this one brought me a blanket when I asked her.

The next bag ran out and the machine had been bleeping for that long I pressed the nurse call button which I had to drag off its clip by the wire because no one had given it to me. I did not feel like kneeling on the bed to reach it, dragging myself and that machine to the toilet was about all I could manage still.

Another nurse came, night shift I assume, and took me off the machine and switched its headache annoying beeping off. She was not as pleasant as the other one but felt to ill to tell her so. She then told me I was being discharged and could I arrange a lift home. The last 3 entries on my toilet chart showed I had been going every 15 minutes.

I said I did not want to go but phoned Rhonda to get me anyway. At least I knew I would be in safe hands in our bed with Rhonda looking after me. SHe had been awake most of the previous night with me and I was hoping she would get some rest while I was in hospital for the night - do they have targets on overnight stays I wonder?

The fluids helped and I started feeling better a few days later. Still weak and a bit more useless than usual but I decided yesterday that I was starting to eat normally to build up my strength for work next week and if my body does not like its just tough.

Sorry for the long boring drivel post but that my resent hospital experience.

[MargaretR]

Commiserations - your hospital experience sounds alarming.

Ever since I had C-Diff 30 years ago, and was on a rehydration drip for 2 weeks, I begin self administered oral rehydration whenever I have diarrheoa.
It is not enough to 'drink plenty of fluids', you need a rehydration solution

A basic (home made) oral rehydration therapy solution is composed of -

30 ml (6 level tsp) of sugar
2.5 ml (1/2 level tsp) of salt, dissolved into
1 litre (4.25 Cups) of clean water

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I have my own views on this.
Taking nurses out of local schools of Nursing and putting them into Universities was not a good move(IMHO).
I served a sort of apprenticeship....a sandwich course in nursing. We were taught that the patients needs were paramount......they came above everything else(including meal breaks).

My experience of the University student nurses was that they were not interested in doing the basic stuff. Washing bottoms, changing patients, bathing patients, feeding patients(all activities which have such a personal touch to them, and which often lead patients to tell you their fears and worries....which you would never otherwise have known....and which you could then address)all they wanted to do was the technical things.

If I was going into nursing now, I would not be accepted. My education would not be deemed good enough........I would have had to go to college to do a foundation course.

I am glad I did my nursing when I did, because it was the best of times. the bit I enjoyed the most was caring for patients.......doing for them what I would want for a member of my own family....treating them with dignity.
We were not well paid and we worked very hard......but working hard is never a chore if you enjoy what you are doing.

I was waiting to hear your views on this Margaret and I think your first statement says it all to me, nurses only acceptable if they qualify through a degree courseyou don't learn compassion and caring at University, that has to come from inside. Its no surprise to me, and I've had plenty of on hand experience in this, is that the old school nurses who are still on the wards are a beacon for nursing, the "new" regime of grad nurses maybe good at the practical side of nursing but mostly come up shore in the most important aspect of the job, compassion and caring. I'm not saying that nurses are don't care, but when the first consideration is career, the nursing side seems to suffer and I've seen the change over the last 31 years of being treated as an in patient, its only when you can compare in this way is when you know there is a difference

[cashman]

well i'm goin in monday fer a minor op,which by the way is hopefully correcting the cock up made at Burnley 2 years ago. seeing how things have improved really fills me wi confidence.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by cashman

well i'm goin in monday fer a minor op,which by the way is hopefully correcting the cock up made at Burnley 2 years ago. seeing how things have improved really fills me wi confidence.

You will be fine mate, your to damn stubborn to let them kill you off

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Neil

You will be fine mate, your to damn stubborn to let them kill you off

And they can't do a lot of damage if they slip with't scalpel

[mobertol]

When at school, we were told that you had to have a vocation to enter the caring professions (it was meant in a non-religious sense). It was to be considered a gift to have an inclination to help others...does this no longer apply?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I was waiting to hear your views on this Margaret and I think your first statement says it all to me, nurses only acceptable if they qualify through a degree courseyou don't learn compassion and caring at University, that has to come from inside. Its no surprise to me, and I've had plenty of on hand experience in this, is that the old school nurses who are still on the wards are a beacon for nursing, the "new" regime of grad nurses maybe good at the practical side of nursing but mostly come up shore in the most important aspect of the job, compassion and caring. I'm not saying that nurses are don't care, but when the first consideration is career, the nursing side seems to suffer and I've seen the change over the last 31 years of being treated as an in patient, its only when you can compare in this way is when you know there is a difference

Graduate nurses are not good on the practical side John.......they haven't enough 'hands on' experience to be good.......what they have got, is an academic knowledge base, which might be seen as the way forward, but actually it isn't. University education was seen as a way to make nursing a 'profession'.........in my book you don't need a uni education to be professional....and as nursing is a practical skill...what you actually need to be a good and efficient nurse is practical experience .... yes you do need some classroom learning, but you need the hands on practical stuff far more.

I think it takes years to get the kind of experience to look at a patient and know that they 'aren't right' without knowing just why they aren't right........we have doctors to decide on diagnoses. Nurses are there not to be pseudo doctors, but to deliver care....and to do it with kindness and preserve the dignity of the patient.

I am glad I am no longer working in the NHS.........I think in a lot of ways it has fallen by the wayside.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Graduate nurses are not good on the practical side John.......they haven't enough 'hands on' experience to be good.......what they have got, is an academic knowledge base, which might be seen as the way forward, but actually it isn't. University education was seen as a way to make nursing a 'profession'.........in my book you don't need a uni education to be professional....and as nursing is a practical skill...what you actually need to be a good and efficient nurse is practical experience .... yes you do need some classroom learning, but you need the hands on practical stuff far more.

I think it takes years to get the kind of experience to look at a patient and know that they 'aren't right' without knowing just why they aren't right........we have doctors to decide on diagnoses. Nurses are there not to be pseudo doctors, but to deliver care....and to do it with kindness and preserve the dignity of the patient.

I am glad I am no longer working in the NHS.........I think in a lot of ways it has fallen by the wayside.

Ya Margaret you don't learn how to change dressings fix an intravenous drip, give a patient a bed bath or help them to the toilet be it the loo or a bed pan, sat in a lecture room at Uni, nursing is about hands on dealing with the needs of patients.

Learning to be a nurse is like anything else, when I was serving my time as a joiner, I attended night school 1 day and two evenings a week the rest of the time was hands on working for my firm who were good enough to let me have a day release, 5 days at school would have been nice a cushie but would have done nothing to make sure that I was a competent tradesman in years to come

[Margaret Pilkington]

Exactly John, and that is how Nurse training was. You would do an 8 week preliminary training course, then be allocated to wards for eight or ten weeks where you would learn to put into practice all those things you had learned about in PTS....then back into school(or block, as it was called) for a couple of weeks for a bit more book learning.
You were tested on what you had learned at the end of each block....and in this way those who were obviously unsuitable were weeded out. At the end of each practical allocation on the wards, you were interviewed and given a report on your abilities and skills...this went to the School of Nursing and your continuance depended quite a bit on these reports.
At the end of three years you sat your Hospital finals,which were a 'mock' for the state finals.

I am proud to say that I came top in our hospital finals....but this was only due to sheer hard work and determination to justify the confidence of Mr Winterburn (the head of Nurse Education) for giving me the chance to follow my dream.

I had a wonderful, enjoyable, satisfying career.

[annesingleton]

My best friend and my sister in law both trained as nurses in the early seventies, they were employed by the hospital and did all their training in school at Blackburn Royal Infirmary and on the wards there or at Queens Park Hospital - in fact my friend delivered my first son when she was training.
I think that things might have become more technical now and there may be a need for more in depth training possibly, but the focus on caring for patients needs and having empathy for them should be paramount - the system should work to meet the needs of the patient, not the other way round where patients have to fit around the system. After all, we pay an awful lot of money for this service throughout our lives, which seems to be a point that people working in the NHS seem to forget! There seems to be a basic lack of human respect within the nursing profession now, which has not been seen previously - I have evidenced this myself when my partner was admitted to hospital in Manchester earlier this year. The nurses generally speaking did not present as professional, they appeared to have little regard for their patients and had I behaved in the way they did in my profession I would have been disciplined at the very least!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Anne, though things become more technical, you do get updates, and are required to update your practice constantly......every nurse must keep a personal development portfoilo which the statutory body of nursing can request in order to inspect your educational development.

New Technological equipment always comes with study days.......and you have to gain competence in the use of such equipment. All nurses are obliged to say if they do not feel competent in using equipment....this is so that gaps in their knowledge can be dealt with.
All nurses have performance reviews too.

I don't think you can teach compassion....or empathy. You either have it or you don't