Tony Blair Mark Two. - Page 5

bullseyebarb · 20-05-2007, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

I've had a great deal of fun watching Libertarians of late.

I have never belonged to any political party. When I said I was a libertarian, I was referring to the principals of small government, personal liberty and responsibility. As the Founders intended, I prefer each state to be a caldron of experimentation. The federal government has grown entirely out of bounds and much of what it does these days is unconstitutional. Government that is closest to the people - i.e., local and state, works best.

bullseyebarb · 20-05-2007, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

Funny, the public schools where I live are quite good. The education I received (and I was hardly alone in this) prepared me to succeed at two of the best universities in the USA.

In any case, if we are not getting full value, how does it follow that the government should do as you advise and cease these activities? Without public schools, road maintenance, garbage hauling, public health initiatives, and the other jobs only the government is equipped to do.

The feds need to get out of the public school business.

For the amount of money we are spending on them, every school should be top drawer. Alas, this is not the case.....particularly in the inner cities. Why do you suppose home schooling is growing by leaps and bounds? Why are so many parents demanding vouchers so that they can get their kids into better schools? I, too, live in an area with pretty decent schools - but we also have a tremendous amount of parental involvement here. That's key to a better school system.

I am not an anarchist. Government has its role to play, but that role should be a limited one.

bullseyebarb · 20-05-2007, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

What accomplishments does Bush have that will ever improve his standing? Nothing significant. He's gotten us mired in Iraq (just as we were mired in Vietnam), saddled our economy with a crippling load of debt, failed in his goal of permanently eliminating estate taxes, alienated allies, and caused his party to lose control of congress. Not to mention the ineptitude of Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, etc.!

Even some of the most distinguished conservative writers in the USA agree. See the following link: http://www.amconmag.com/2006/2006_08_28/article9.html

I would have thought you'd have been thrilled with "education reform", (No Child Left Behind and all that sort of stuff). Not to mention the Medicare drug bennies. President Bush isn't a conservative, (except in a few areas), which is why conservatives argue about him and write their articles.

How about a roaring economy? Tax cuts - and their resultant gush of revenues to the U.S. Treasury. If only Congress would stop spending so much money, the debt would go down a heck of a lot faster. I believe Congress shares a large part of the blame for the failure to make permanent the elimination of the estate tax. President Bush has not treated global terrorism like a crime to be dealt with by the judiciary. For that I give him credit. But he didn't put us on a war footing - so a minus there.

Not enough time to discuss either Iraq or Viet Nam here. Needless to say, I think you are off on both.

The president did not lose the last election for Republicans. They did a darn good job of doing that for themselves - having forgotten why their voters sent them to Washington in the first place.

I'll give you Gonzales. Nice guy, I'm sure.....but in way over his head.

Margaret Pilkington · 20-05-2007, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Don't know about anyone else but Mrs H keeps telling me about how she is sick and tired of the endless meetings, meaningless reports and pointless discussions and how she just wants to get back to doing what she came into the NHS to do - treat her patients!

I heartily agree Wynonie.......that is what nurses are paid to do...treat and care for patients. I left the N.H.S. five years ago and it was in a sorry state then. Too much dancing to the tunes of different politicians...meeting targets for this, having discussions about how we would meet targets for that......not enough staff and resources to care for patients in the way that I had been taught to do.
I went into nursing to nurse patients, not to attend endless (useless) meetings.
I am so glad to have left because my friends tell me it has become much worse.

Billcat · 22-05-2007, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Our tax dollars via the Welfare State.

Well, that response was about as clear as mud.

Billcat · 22-05-2007, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

The feds need to get out of the public school business.

For the amount of money we are spending on them, every school should be top drawer. Alas, this is not the case.....particularly in the inner cities. Why do you suppose home schooling is growing by leaps and bounds? Why are so many parents demanding vouchers so that they can get their kids into better schools? I, too, live in an area with pretty decent schools - but we also have a tremendous amount of parental involvement here. That's key to a better school system.

I am not an anarchist. Government has its role to play, but that role should be a limited one.

I was not talking about the Federal government specifically. Many of your libertarian fellow travellers want to stop funding public education altogether. And, I would note, that when confronted about your sweepting generalizations, you suddenly try to narrow the scope. Poor form!

Home schooling is growing, in large part, because there are folks who wish their kids to remain ignorant on certain subjects, such as evolution.

Ianto.W. · 22-05-2007, 21:11

We are all now speaking with benefit of hindsight, the outcome of these conflicts will be the judge of both Dubya Bush and Tony Blairs foreign policies.As regard to local education and other day to day problems these really are the remit of the appointed ministers and the Mandarins, yes at the end of the day the leader is ultimatley responsible. In my opinion the education system of our country is a shambles, I cannot speak for the USA or any other country. The basic three 'R's are not the primary subjects anymore, the teaching of basic English has first to be taught, as the families of some immigrants cannot, or do not teach their siblings English, but the language of their country of birth. Thus we have a situation where if you are trapped in an area where you are a minority, amongst immigrants through poverty or circumstances your children will be held back whilst the others 'cach up', this time can never be given back as it is to late, the end product is semi illiteracy. I am not a racist this is just common sense, this is why you have 'Ghetto's', a prime example are the two schools where I received my primary education and secondary education, Spring Hill and Hyndburn Park Schools. 99.9% Asian. This has got to be said painfull or not!

spinner · 23-05-2007, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ianto.W.

. The basic three 'R's are not the primary subjects anymore, the teaching of basic English has first to be taught, as the families of some immigrants cannot, or do not teach their siblings English, but the language of their country of birth. Thus we have a situation where if you are trapped in an area where you are a minority, amongst immigrants through poverty or circumstances your children will be held back whilst the others 'cach up', this time can never be given back as it is to late, the end product is semi illiteracy. I am not a racist this is just common sense, this is why you have 'Ghetto's', a prime example are the two schools where I received my primary education and secondary education, Spring Hill and Hyndburn Park Schools. 99.9% Asian. This has got to be said painfull or not!

ianto you shouldnt worry about being branded a racist for airing your concerns about springhill. obviously springhills standards must have been very different in your days as you seem to know your stuff. the problem isnt simply a case of immigrant families not speaking to their children in English.believe me i know that kids in pakistan can speak much better english than the springhill mob. unfortunately a lot kids from aparticular area in pakistan tend to be concentrated in springhill. my uncle says their clan was often joked about in pakistan for being dimwitted . i also went to the mosque with their parents and i felt clever against them and im not bright at all.unfortunately the majority of them are natural born low acheivers. weve got to face facts alot of them are thick. i dont mean to be heartless but it would be hard to improve such a school.
the few intelligent kids suffer educationaly as a resultand are left behind. this happened to my friends son and he often complained that the other kids seemed to have very little ability.he picked up a lot of the poor english from his peers and is poorly educated despite being brighter than most kids.

cashman · 23-05-2007, 23:37

thats an interesting thought spinner, if the intelligent kids suffer as yer friends obviously did, whats the answer to this problem? it seems a very difficult one to solve to me.

Ianto.W. · 24-05-2007, 10:51

As a child these two schools Spring Hill and Hyndburn Park were the best in Accrington, Peel Park was equally as good, but they had to move on to Secondary Education or Grammar Schools, not forgetting the Technical Schools we had then. The teachers such as the Dean Brothers, Leslie at Hyndburn Park and Brother Jack at Haslingden Secondarry Modern School, were not only good, but they were part of the community and well respected for it. The system was not perfect and in some cases downright unfair, the children that slipped through the 'net' were allowed to go on to Grammer School later, there were always late developers children who's eysight or hearing disabilaty had not been picked up, or the ones that took longer to learn. But one thing I do know is that of all my past schoolmates and friends none were illiterate when leaving school.

spinner · 24-05-2007, 14:47

all i know is that any parent whos child has potential should not send their kids to springhill.i would rather educate them at home than at springhill. the so called teaching assistant is hardly articulate. ianto its hard to believe that springhill was a half decent scool, that teaching assistant would not have got that job i those days then.

mallard · 24-05-2007, 19:39

It dose no matter now who,s in power i think it will alway,s be the same

thindle · 24-05-2007, 20:38

Just to sum it all up. Tony Blair has been the BEST Prime Minister this country has ever had. Or ever will have. Three cheers for Tony Blair. Hip, Hip Hurrah ETC.
Three cheers for our National Health Service. Where would we all be if it was all Private. And all you Tories out there who claim, benefits of any kind JUST THINK HOW LUCKY YOU ARE. Think long and hard. Just where would you be.

Wynonie Harris · 24-05-2007, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by thindle

Three cheers for Tony Blair. Hip, Hip Hurrah ETC.

That's what I like, penetrating political analysis.

Ianto.W. · 24-05-2007, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by thindle

Just to sum it all up. Tony Blair has been the BEST Prime Minister this country has ever had. Or ever will have. Three cheers for Tony Blair. Hip, Hip Hurrah ETC.
Three cheers for our National Health Service. Where would we all be if it was all Private. And all you Tories out there who claim, benefits of any kind JUST THINK HOW LUCKY YOU ARE. Think long and hard. Just where would you be.

All I can say without wasting precious breath which is hard come by these days 'thindle', is how do you arrive at that very profound statement. I for one am dying to know?