Tony Blair Mark Two.

[Stanaccy]

Right I've had of enough of this.

Education went downhill in the mid 80s when they got rid of 'O' levels. GCSEs in whatever the f**k, do not count as a qualification, this was not Labour it was the tories wanting to get more folk through the exams. Which I assume ha something to do with making the benchmark fixed every year rather than a floating one so only x%got A's or passed etc.

Labour just arsed about with 'A' Levels in the same way. Mind you considering some of the gits who are at school at the moment the teachers deserve a medal not a slating.

Oh one thing Bullseyebarb, which generation brought up the previous 20 years of schoolchildren that you are moaning about?

And as for the libertarian thinking I'd rather live here and pay my taxes and be guaranteed a place in hospital if any of my family were ill than have to choose between insurance or feeding my kids.

You may hate the state but looking at over there and the freedom to shoot up schools, universities and shooping centres (oops sorry bear arms) and over here where it is illegal - the choice doesn't really take much consideration.

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by Stanaccy

Oh one thing Bullseyebarb, which generation brought up the previous 20 years of schoolchildren that you are moaning about?

And as for the libertarian thinking I'd rather live here and pay my taxes and be guaranteed a place in hospital if any of my family were ill than have to choose between insurance or feeding my kids.

You may hate the state but looking at over there and the freedom to shoot up schools, universities and shooping centres (oops sorry bear arms) and over here where it is illegal - the choice doesn't really take much consideration.

Not moaning. Merely making an observation, along with others of like mind. If you are happy with the current state of education, then there is no problem, is there?

Your knowledge of the U.S. health system is clearly influenced by what you read and see on t.v. Believe it or not, people without insurance or ability to pay are admitted to hospitals every day. They must receive treatment. It is the law. We do in fact have many more choices than in England. I would not trade with you for anything.

Please attempt to be rational. Law abiding gun owners, (the majority), are not the problem here. Kindly do not try to obfuscate the issue.

[Stanaccy]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Not moaning. Merely making an observation, along with others of like mind. If you are happy with the current state of education, then there is no problem, is there?

Your knowledge of the U.S. health system is clearly influenced by what you read and see on t.v. Believe it or not, people without insurance or ability to pay are admitted to hospitals every day. They must receive treatment. It is the law. We do in fact have many more choices than in England. I would not trade with you for anything.

Please attempt to be rational. Law abiding gun owners, (the majority), are not the problem here. Kindly do not try to obfuscate the issue.

I am not confusing the issue I am stating a fact, guns kill! the only reason for owning a gun is to KILL!! be you 'law abiding' or a serial killer. The self defence argument is cr*p, if that is the case why own 97 different guns including M16s.

There are more murders per capita in the US than any other country in the western world, hmm wonder why?

Also, yes you may be treated in a hospital and your life saved but then you are in incredible debt. The republicans also vetoed Clinton's bill to make healthcare affordable for all? Why give me an argument against that?

I am not saying I was happy I am happy with the state of education (note how you picked bits you like from my statement) I was basically saying that you feel that education was better in the fifties/sixties, aren't they the ones responsible for bringing up the children who became the delinquents of the 80s and nineties?

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by Stanaccy

I am not confusing the issue I am stating a fact, guns kill! the only reason for owning a gun is to KILL!! be you 'law abiding' or a serial killer. The self defence argument is cr*p, if that is the case why own 97 different guns including M16s.

There are more murders per capita in the US than any other country in the western world, hmm wonder why?

Also, yes you may be treated in a hospital and your life saved but then you are in incredible debt. The republicans also vetoed Clinton's bill to make healthcare affordable for all? Why give me an argument against that?

I am not saying I was happy I am happy with the state of education (note how you picked bits you like from my statement) I was basically saying that you feel that education was better in the fifties/sixties, aren't they the ones responsible for bringing up the children who became the delinquents of the 80s and nineties?

No, guns don't kill. Individuals do.

Some people like to collect guns. I see nothing wrong with that.

Has your inability to defend yourselves actually made you safer? I think not, if many of the comments on this web site are anything to go by.

As I have already remarked on a previous occasion.....the vast majority of Americans lead lives of great tranquility.

I assume you are referring to Hillary Clinton's proposal for healthcare? Once the American people saw what it actually entailed they were calling and writing their reps in Congress in a flash. It wasn't just Republicans who voted against that abomination.

Well, what is it? Better or worse education now. I think it's worse.

[Ianto.W.]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Your mother's opinions, along with those of my sister, are purely anecdotal. The proof is in the pudding. Which generation was better educated and more prepared for life? Time will tell.

You are right in my opinion 'Barb' on this educational issue, the number of times I have been in shops, and had to tell the assistant how much change was required when the till was not working, and yet today's Decimal System is far simpler from the old Imperial System that we and our forebears had to cope with.
Today's and by todays school leavers, I include all those who were educated after the Grammar School system was 'butchered' and no I was not clever enough to go, as at the time my education had suffered as a result of wartime and postwar scarcety and moving about, as my Father was a regular in the Royal Airforce. The system allowed for late developers, there was not the distraction of television and other visual playthings that are the cause of illiteracy today plus as 'Barb' rightly points out a poor standard of teachers, which in my opinion will only get worse as the educational standards are dropped annualy.

[bullseyebarb]

Thanks, Ian.

My sister tells me that the curriculum is such nowadays that there is not enough time given to thoroughly address the essentials......reading, writing, mathematics, history, geography, etc., And the paperwork the teachers have to endure! Why did the government decide to change the old tried and true methods?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Why did the government decide to change the old tried and true methods?

All enquires to the most radical, and reforming of all post War Education Ministers-

The Rt. Hon. The Baroness Thatcher (SC)
Chester Square
Belgravia
London SW1
England

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

All enquires to the most radical, and reforming of all post War Education Ministers-

The Rt. Hon. The Baroness Thatcher (SC)
Chester Square
Belgravia
London SW1
England

You wrote her full title, how cute

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

You wrote her full title, how cute

She was impressed with my impecable manners, and attention to detail and protocol, when we had dinner together, as I think I've told you before.

[Ianto.W.]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Thanks, Ian.

My sister tells me that the curriculum is such nowadays that there is not enough time given to thoroughly address the essentials......reading, writing, mathematics, history, geography, etc., And the paperwork the teachers have to endure! Why did the government decide to change the old tried and true methods?

I only know one thing, only history tells us where we/they whoever had to make the fatefull decisions at the time made mistakes, speaking now with the benefit of hindsight it is easy to apportion blame. What disturbs me is that the powers that be will never be allowed to rectify the mistake, as the educational standards are no longer required in this electronically assisted age. The sad fact is that many of our youth have lost the ability to think for themselves, what new barriers are now going to be crossed and at what cost?

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

She was impressed with my impecable manners, and attention to detail and protocol, when we had dinner together, as I think I've told you before.

Does that mean you got the knife and fork the correct way round?

[Ianto.W.]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

Does that mean you got the knife and fork the correct way round?

Now there's a good question to ask any school pupil in their final year at school, it should be part of the 'leaving exam' set a dinner table for four people, I wonder how many would get it right?.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ianto.W.

Now there's a good question to ask any school pupil in their final year at school, it should be part of the 'leaving exam' set a dinner table for four people, I wonder how many would get it right?.

I'd like to think a child would be taught how to eat by their parents, before starting school, and that it isn't down to the State to teach them.

Perhaps you also think schools should be there to teach children how to wipe their arse too?

[Ianto.W.]

Originally Posted by garinda

I'd like to think a child would be taught how to eat by their parents, before starting school, and that it isn't down to the State to teach them.

Perhaps you also think schools should be there to teach children how to wipe their arse too?

Don't they gary, they expect someone to do it no one ever had to do it for me, or you probably for that matter..