Tories "work for benifits" scheme

[blazey]

I got offered a cleaning job recently even though there were plenty of immigrants, all older than me, waiting to be interviewed who could probably do the job better than me. When I first rang for the job the woman said at the end of the call that it was nice to hear a british accent.

I felt I was offered the job unfairly and I turned the job down, I didn't want to be employed by someone with that kind of attitude. I dont think its fair to say there is a lack of jobs just because the immigrants work harder, as there are still many many people in the country who would rather hire a native to the country than an immigrant, regardless of who is better qualified for the job.

As already said, its a good idea to force people into work but there must be cleaners and things already doing the jobs so it seems a bit silly. How are they going to create jobs for these people? Why dont they force them to sign up for the army or something, i'm sure there is always a need for soldiers.

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by blazey

When I first rang for the job the woman said at the end of the call that it was nice to hear a british accent.

Did you tell her you were offended by that remark

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by blazey

I got offered a cleaning job recently even though there were plenty of immigrants, all older than me, waiting to be interviewed who could probably do the job better than me. When I first rang for the job the woman said at the end of the call that it was nice to hear a british accent.

I felt I was offered the job unfairly and I turned the job down, I didn't want to be employed by someone with that kind of attitude. I dont think its fair to say there is a lack of jobs just because the immigrants work harder, as there are still many many people in the country who would rather hire a native to the country than an immigrant, regardless of who is better qualified for the job.

As already said, its a good idea to force people into work but there must be cleaners and things already doing the jobs so it seems a bit silly. How are they going to create jobs for these people? Why dont they force them to sign up for the army or something, i'm sure there is always a need for soldiers.

Silly people always come up with the “make them join the army” response to the work shy.

The British armed forces are probably the best disciplined in the world in spite of being badly equipped. We don’t want dead beats getting their hands on a weapon that kills DEAD.

The modern service person is no longer considered as cannon fodder but needs to be intelligent, resourceful, courageous, sympathetic, diplomatic and friendly as well as a cold blooded killer when the need arises.

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by jambutty

If a person is dead set on not working then how do you make him/her?

You don't need to make them work. But you don't have to pay them benefits either. I live in California, and our unemployment benefit is like a savings account - you have to earn it before you get paid it, and after a period of time it runs out - and you need to find a job in order to replenish your unemployment balance or you starve. If you are physically incapable of working, there are programs to help out, and also modified work, which finds you a job which fits your ability, and potentially makes up the difference in what an employer would pay you. My brother-in-law has struggled with employment recently, and doesn't feel the urge to go get a job.... until his unemployment is about to run out.

I think most decent people want those who truly cannot provide for themselves to be cared for, but those who are physically capable should be supported in the short term while they get their act together, but able bodied individuals shouldn't be supported for their lifetime.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Gareth

You don't need to make them work. But you don't have to pay them benefits either. I live in California, and our unemployment benefit is like a savings account - you have to earn it before you get paid it, and after a period of time it runs out - and you need to find a job in order to replenish your unemployment balance or you starve. If you are physically incapable of working, there are programs to help out, and also modified work, which finds you a job which fits your ability, and potentially makes up the difference in what an employer would pay you. My brother-in-law has struggled with employment recently, and doesn't feel the urge to go get a job.... until his unemployment is about to run out.

I think most decent people want those who truly cannot provide for themselves to be cared for, but those who are physically capable should be supported in the short term while they get their act together, but able bodied individuals shouldn't be supported for their lifetime.

OK! Clever clogs! How do you differentiate between someone who cannot find a job that pays enough to live on from someone who does not want to find one? Then having done that how do you make a person do the job properly?

[steeljack]

surprised no-one has mentioned the example set by the chap in an earlier thread, he was Blind and had no hands but still managed to hold down a full time job , probably too proud to even apply for , let alone demand a blue badge as an "entitlement"

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by jambutty

OK! Clever clogs! How do you differentiate between someone who cannot find a job that pays enough to live on from someone who does not want to find one? Then having done that how do you make a person do the job properly?

What's not enough to live on? Without sounding like a heartless ass, £5.52 an hour is certainly above poverty wages. How long does said person that "can't find a job" given to look while being supported by taxpayer money that could be spent on the NHS or better Schools or roads? 2 months? 6 months? 4 years? Taking a job while continuing to look is always an option. Sliding scale top up benefits (giving people a benefit that supplements their earned income) is certainly better than dishing out the dole.

People need to be trained in legitimate skills. Government needs to help out there. Creating skilled jobs creates the gap between positions that seem to be filled by "foreigners" who are willing to work hard for less money. Welcome to the Global economy. If someone goes through school and comes out with no real education, or any marketable skills, then he is going to be competing against an eastern European that is over the moon making minimum wage. That's what you get for joining the EU. Its great for business, but sucks if you are on the bottom end of the food chain.

Encouraging people to create a little self worth by getting them out into the workplace. Personally, I think encouraging young people to start their own business would be a great thing. I am self-employed and I have never worked for anyone else. Its been a lot of hard graft. I have become successful, eventually, but there have been a lot of bumps along the way. I don't buy that someone "can't find a job".

[Margaret Pilkington]

We, in this country, pay benefits to people who have not paid a penny into the system.
This needs to stop. In most countries if you emigrate you have to have enough funds to support yourself for a period of time and you are not entitled to benefits unless you have contributed.

And while I don't think that benefits should be seen as a career option, I do not think that making people work on Community schemes is the way to get people back into the work arena.

[WillowTheWhisp]

There are plenty of people in Accy who have got 'not being able to find a job' down to a fine art. They probably spend more energy avoiding getting a job than they would do in working for a living.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

We, in this country, pay benefits to people who have not paid a penny into the system.
This needs to stop.

To an extent I would agree with you but we also need a safety net for people who for whatever reason are not able to contribute to the system - otherwise we go back to the workhouse.

We could have a system for people born here who are unable to work and a different system for immigrants, like other countries who won't let people in unless they have a job and somewhere to live already lined up.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Willow, I agree that there should be a safety net. I was mainly referring to people who come in from abroad with no means of support, who then manage to claim benefits.
I am not really blaming them for claiming benefits....I blame the system that allows this practice to take place.
I do not think that those who are long term sick should be made to feel guilty because they are sick....with perhaps a chronic disease that will end their life prematurely.

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

We, in this country, pay benefits to people who have not paid a penny into the system.
This needs to stop. In most countries if you emigrate you have to have enough funds to support yourself for a period of time and you are not entitled to benefits unless you have contributed.

And while I don't think that benefits should be seen as a career option, I do not think that making people work on Community schemes is the way to get people back into the work arena.

I agree with you. When I emigrated to the USA, both my sponsor and I had to sign an agreement that said that I would not attempt to claim benefits or obtain assistance from the state.

Community schemes should be a very temporary measure easing people back into the habit of getting up in the morning and doing a day's work. I am of the opinion that people should do SOMETHING in exchange for their pittance. Anything. Doing the old neighbour's gardening or accompanying them to go shopping. Give them a little responsibility, and make them understand that their dole isn't free. Then they might actually want to get a real job as the alternative isn't very pleasant. And if they don't want to do their bit of community service, then the community shouldn't be obliged to give them their dole. God I sound like a Tory. I must be getting old.

And Margaret, I don't think ANYONE wants people that are truly incapable through illness or injury from feeling guilty about being supported, simply those who play the system, who are capable of supporting themselves, but chose to play the benefits game should have their loopholes closed. Joey Boswell has a lot to answer for.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Gareth, doing something for the community may be taking paid work away from someone else. Any work that is done for the dole should either lead to a 'REAL' job........or be a real job....not just something that has been conjured up to give idle hands something to do.......I can see that working for dole, is in essence, 'slave labour' because people are not being paid their true worth.Dole should be a safety net with an imposed time limit....if you don't find work in 6 months then you are on your own.
It is just that some people se themselves expectations that are too high.....you'll hear them say 'I wouldn't get out of bed for that kind of wage' or 'I can get more on the dole'....!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by shillelagh

This is about people who are on Jobseekers allowance NOT incapacity benefit. So please leave people who are on incapacity benefit alone.

Why, there are a lot of people claiming incapacity benefit that should not be. All forms of hand out should be reassessed on a regular basis to make sure the person claiming still qualifies.

I have been saying for years they should not be giving money out while we have dirty hospitals and streets.

[WillowTheWhisp]

And don't forget the parks - there's plenty of work could be done there by the able bodied job seekers.

I don't do a regular 9-5 job but I still get up in the mornings. 4 days a week I get up at 5am with my daughter. 2 days I have a lie in until 6:30 and on Sundays I'm a real layabout because I don't get up until 7:30!