Tories "work for benifits" scheme - Page 7

steeljack · 10-01-2008, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

I Especially nowadays when hundreds of thousands of immigrants are crossing our shores and quite happy to work for the basic minimum or less. When a week’s basic wage over here is the equivalent to a month’s wage in their home country you can’t blame them for coming over but it does keep most unskilled and semi skilled jobs pay at the legal minimum and not what the job is really worth.

Sorry I dont understand this logic , no matter where someone comes from, be it eastern Europe, Africa or the far east their living costs in the UK are the same as those as the native born , a loaf of bread is the same price to a Pole as it is for a Brit , Accomodation costs are probably more since 'they' don't have established roots or local conections and are at the mercy of housing speculators, and the fact that they can save and remit money back to their families in their homelands says something

Less · 10-01-2008, 19:12

Well, has this thread gone on for too long or what?

Yes, there are dole scroungers.

Yes, there are people pretending and turning up for medicals and extracting the urine, then claiming the maximum that they can because somehow they know how to fiddle the system.

Strange as it may seem though they are not the majority,

most people on benifits are not there from choice.

Because there are some people that will never, ever, work no matter what incentives are offered them we all tend to lump the unemployed together,

This is wrong!

Most of the Genuine unemployed could be on permanent sickness benifit but they don't realise it, most of the people on incapacity should be claiming the benifits that are allowed for the disabled but foolish pride stops them from claiming.

Why? because they already feel they have failed, they do not need those getting four to five times as much as they do while in regular employment looking down on them, they feel small enough!

I keep reading on here about a 55 year old engineer that should be willing to re-train, the poor sod, he knows that he is trying hard to get a place back amongst his fellow workers, he probably has a few wrinkles and tips he could pass on, but come the interview, (if he wasn't foolish enough to put his age on his C.V.), he is quickly nudged onto the 'too old' pile, yes I know by law that shouldn't happen but it still does!

The same 55 year old has possibly been paying into the system with those weekly contributions called National Insurance when he was younger he didn't need to claim, now he's older he's brought a family up half killed himself on that journey through life and now that he, (regretfully), has to use that insurance, is treated like a scrounger.

Hang your heads in shame, not for stating that the system needs cleaning up but because you seem to have put all in that situation into the category of scroungers.

It's not true but it is a very easy and simplistic thing to do.

jambutty · 10-01-2008, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

Well, has this thread gone on for too long or what?

Yes, there are dole scroungers.

Yes, there are people pretending and turning up for medicals and extracting the urine, then claiming the maximum that they can because somehow they know how to fiddle the system.

Strange as it may seem though they are not the majority,

most people on benifits are not there from choice.

Because there are some people that will never, ever, work no matter what incentives are offered them we all tend to lump the unemployed together,

This is wrong!

Most of the Genuine unemployed could be on permanent sickness benifit but they don't realise it, most of the people on incapacity should be claiming the benifits that are allowed for the disabled but foolish pride stops them from claiming.

Why? because they already feel they have failed, they do not need those getting four to five times as much as they do while in regular employment looking down on them, they feel small enough!

I keep reading on here about a 55 year old engineer that should be willing to re-train, the poor sod, he knows that he is trying hard to get a place back amongst his fellow workers, he probably has a few wrinkles and tips he could pass on, but come the interview, (if he wasn't foolish enough to put his age on his C.V.), he is quickly nudged onto the 'too old' pile, yes I know by law that shouldn't happen but it still does!

The same 55 year old has possibly been paying into the system with those weekly contributions called National Insurance when he was younger he didn't need to claim, now he's older he's brought a family up half killed himself on that journey through life and now that he, (regretfully), has to use that insurance, is treated like a scrounger.

Hang your heads in shame, not for stating that the system needs cleaning up but because you seem to have put all in that situation into the category of scroungers.

It's not true but it is a very easy and simplistic thing to do.

Wholeheartedly agree with you.

Now that you have put the pontificators firmly in their place maybe they will go away and target some other unfortunate group of people.

WillowTheWhisp · 10-01-2008, 19:58

I think the problem is that there ARE scroungers and claimants who are not entitled to claim but do and there are people who do not claim all they should. If we could stop the people claiming who shouldn't then there would be more available for those who are entitled to it.

It's not the genuine sick and disabled who are a problem. It's the people who are claiming incapacity benefit and doing cash in hand jobs that cause the problem and then to make matters worse people assume that others who are genuinely disabled are probably pulling a fast one too.

WillowTheWhisp · 10-01-2008, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

If it wasn’t that then there was the three months rule. “Sorry we don’t think that you are going to make the grade” or words that effect as they show you the door at the end of week 12. At week 14 they would have to pay the full going wage.

That happened to my daughter - she was supposedly taken on on a 13 week trial but given no training and then asked to leave on week 12. Of course they know exactly what they are doing.

cashman · 10-01-2008, 20:18

good post Less, was in a similar position at 50 yrs old, earned good money all me life, paid me dues, then was put out of work after nearly 23 yrs at same firm, was lucky enough to get a job after about 10 days, was MINIMUM wage was told at the joke centre, that was all i would get at my age

loved the new job, was only a bread man,but so what i had worked all me life, got me first wage (6 days) and was shocked to see i had dropped about £280 per week, after 6 months we could not exist off that wage, late wife was made redundant, so luckily we owned our property,had savings, so emigrated to spain,started me own business, did ok, unfortunately cancer put paid to that. so for cyfr to say he dont think somebody with 30-40 yrs of engineering experiance would struggle to find a job, is galling to me to put it mildly. i hope the arrogant prat is never in that position.

WillowTheWhisp · 10-01-2008, 20:34

But just look at how you coped with it and didn't accept defeat Cashy. That's brilliant. I wish I had the sense, courage, gumption to start a business but I'm just successful at being hopeless!

cashman · 10-01-2008, 20:41

many told me i had courage willow, i never viewed it that way at all, after 6 months starting 5-15 until between 1-00 n 2-00, then attempting to get a suitable job, n keep being told i was too old,etc etc, it was desparation not courage, n luckily it worked.

Less · 10-01-2008, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I think the problem is that there ARE scroungers and claimants who are not entitled to claim but do and there are people who do not claim all they should. If we could stop the people claiming who shouldn't then there would be more available for those who are entitled to it.

It's not the genuine sick and disabled who are a problem. It's the people who are claiming incapacity benefit and doing cash in hand jobs that cause the problem and then to make matters worse people assume that others who are genuinely disabled are probably pulling a fast one too.

Willow we all know there are scroungers, and yes, if we could erradicate them from the system more would become available for the genuine claimants, but the genuine claimants aren't asking for more, as little as it is they can actually survive on the money they get, (which is alot better than days gone by with workhouses etc).

However you bring up the subject, people claiming and working cash in hand, I wonder whose fault is that?

If someone on benefits gets caught working in that fashion their money is stopped, what happens to the guy that employed them and perhaps several more?

If he wasn't there to tempt people on the dole to work, 'cash in hand', then they perhaps would sooner find a job.

I would love to hear of a government, any government Labour or Conservative, clamping down on the illegal employer rather than the struggling unemployed, of course an extra few pounds is tempting but if caught who gets penalised?

cashman · 10-01-2008, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

Willow we all know there are scroungers, and yes, if we could erradicate them from the system more would become available for the genuine claimants, but the genuine claimants aren't asking for more, as little as it is they can actually survive on the money they get, (which is alot better than days gone by with workhouses etc).

However you bring up the subject, people claiming and working cash in hand, I wonder whose fault is that?

If someone on benefits gets caught working in that fashion their money is stopped, what happens to the guy that employed them and perhaps several more?

If he wasn't there to tempt people on the dole to work, 'cash in hand', then they perhaps would sooner find a job.

I would love to hear of a government, any government Labour or Conservative, clamping down on the illegal employer rather than the struggling unemployed, of course an extra few pounds is tempting but if caught who gets penalised?

you'll have a long wait mate! think these ******* view that as acceptable.

WillowTheWhisp · 10-01-2008, 21:04

Yes there are the illegal employers who could do with sorting out, just as those who employ slave labour need to be weeded out but there are also people who do odd jobs of what they were employed as (plumbing, property repairing, gardening) and still claim dole/incapacity benefit. I knew a guy up Fern Gore who was officially on the sick and doing pointing and wall building etc. Mind you last I heard of him he was in prison so he didn't exactly end up a success story.

Less · 10-01-2008, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

you'll have a long wait mate! think these ******* view that as acceptable.

You're right, 'cos I bet every firm each of our wonderous politicians is a director for is probably as guilty of employing somebody 'unofficially' just as the one man band builder is!

Catch the fat cat employers that will cut down on the so called scroungers.

Think back to your own past,

Have you ever employed someone to do a job for you? ("pay me cash gov' and I'll knock you 25% off, nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

There was a bloke about 2,000 years ago said don't cast the first stone, how many in this thread are guilty of doing it though?

(I know I'm not innocent, but I don't remember the guy that fitted the tiles name (The roof still leaks though )).

Margaret Pilkington · 10-01-2008, 21:25

Well, I've inspected my palms and can see no nail holes....so I know I'm not perfect.

WillowTheWhisp · 10-01-2008, 21:28

No I'm not perfect either because the guy I was previously talking about did some pointing for us and when we found out he was claiming dole we didn't send him packing.

Less · 10-01-2008, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Well, I've inspected my palms and can see no nail holes....so I know I'm not perfect.

None of us are, but I bet the temptation is there, most of the people on here offered a bit of cash on the side, no questions asked, (do it on a weekend) would come up with a quote, (money), then turn around and say, "it's a perk of the job, no harm in it!"

Absolutly right! no harm in it, only pin money, same as the guy on the dole, but considering your take home pay and his.....

who is the biggest hypocrite?

P.S. Marge using it as an example not you personal.