Tough love.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by cashman

i can quite understand a reluctance fer capital punishment, given the old days,was against meself, was miscarriges of justice, experts giving tainted evidence- re- the ira bombers on the mainland etc, but these days wi D.N.A. plus those who hold there hand up to horrendous crimes, can see no good reason, why it is not n option fer the judge.

There's doubts about some of the convictions resulting from Operation Ore, and some of those convicted might have been the victims of identity theft.

There was no definitive DNA or physical evidence of abuse in these cases.

Operation Ore: legal challenge to child abuse inquiry - Telegraph

Operation Ore - Jim Gamble

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

There have been lots of convictions were the only evidence has been testament, including rape, and child abuse cases.

Some of those cases have been brought about because of Repressed Memory Syndrome, in which people didn't remember being abused until in therapy. Some of these convictions have since proved to be false.

However disgusting I find these crimes, I couldn't find someone guilty if they were to be executed.

As satisfying as it might be, and if it was children related to me I'd feel I wanted to hurt the evil gets myself, it would only be an act of revenge.

These crimes also occured when we had the death penalty, as seen by the Moors Murderers, but it didn't act as a deterrent.

The only answer is to lock them away forever, if there's the slightest chance they might harm anyone else.

There have been cases of teachers being accused and found guilty of abusing children, which were later found to be false.

Not much comfort to their families if when later proved innocent, if they're dead and buried.

Just my opinion, and it won't be swayed on this matter.

aint trying to sway ya mate, but what relation has any of that to D.N.A. evidence?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by cashman

aint trying to sway ya mate, but what relation has any of that to D.N.A. evidence?

Just the fact that people have been convicted of crimes against children in which there was no DNA evidence.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

Just the fact that people have been convicted of crimes against children in which there was no DNA evidence.

Agree but think that progress has been made, so that is no longer a factor.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by cashman

Agree but think that progress has been made, so that is no longer a factor.

Where evidence is indisputable - i.e. positive DNA or other scientific means, then I feel that the death penalty is fully justifiable, and I am of the opinion that this applies to both child abuse and murder.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by garinda

Well, although I detest and abhor evil crimes against children, you have stronger self convictions than myself.

No I wouldn't say so ! It's just that on this issue there are some of us who can't agree with your points of view. I wouldn't attempt to sway your opinion & I have respect for your stance (as I had for Eric on the torture issue), but I can't agree with you on this one.

As you also stated murders were being committed even when the Death penalty was an option, but here I would interject that the rate of murders & violent crimes has risen since the abolishment of said sentence. Therefore I do believe it had some deterrent effect, added to that those who were hung certainly were stopped from re-offending.

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source...IOSBca_0hU9Ulw

specifically Chapter. VI in relation to crime. Like I said crime detection has come on in leaps & bounds since the earlier days of forensics, to todays ultra modern & hi-tec advances. The results speak for themselves as the bulk of modern crimes are solved with modern technologies & the convictions are sound, you yourself have advocated the use of modern methods on previous occasions.

[garinda]

'Darryl Gee was jailed in 2001 despite scant evidence to corroborate his accuser’s claims, which related to alleged incidents more than a decade earlier.'

“It all boiled down to one girl’s word against his, and the jury believed her,” she said. “That’s all it took to send my son to prison and it has left me very angry and grief stricken. I don’t think anyone should have to work alone with a child – it is just too easy for an allegation like this to be made.”

'His conviction was eventually quashed when his mother alerted the Criminal Cases Review Commission, which asked a leading psychiatrist to report on his accuser. The study cast doubt on her mental state. It also emerged that the girl, now 26, made similar allegations against another man, whose conviction was quashed earlier this year.'

DARRYL GEE COURT OF APPEAL PSYCHOLOGY SERIAL FALSE ACCUSATIONS ASSAULT RAPE CLAIMS

Sadly there are also some evil liars, whose actions mean more suffering for real victims of abuse, and also those they wrongly accuse, and are convicted of crimes they didn't commit.

[cashman]

surely though ones word is differant completely to D.N.A. evidence? to me thats "Bang to Rights"

[garinda]

'Mr Blackwell's ordeal began when his accuser, now 39, claimed she had been seized with a knife outside a village club early on New Year's Day 1999, taken to an alley and indecently assaulted.'

'She picked him out of an identity parade and a jury found him guilty, even though there was no forensic evidence and he had no previous convictions. His wife Tanya never doubted his innocence.'

'Eventually, the case was investigated by the Criminal Cases Review Commission which found his accuser had fabricated at least seven other allegations of sexual and physical assault. She frequently changed her name and police forces did not realise they were dealing with the same woman.'

Man wrongly jailed for three years charged £7,000 by Home Office for 'board and lodging'| News | This is London

[Mancie]

Don't agree the death penalty is any deterrent to a killer.. I don't see it as a something that might be in someones mind when they decide to kill wether it be in a "rush of blood" or even if it is planned....I don't think it's a factor for killers.
On the other hand for some crimes it seems the proper thing to do.

[davebtelford]

Don't know if it's it been said above but in the film 'Pierpoint' the hangman is quoted as saying "The death penalty never achieved anything except revenge".

I think some criminals should never be released but how do you justify wrongly executing an innocent person? Perhaps our criterion for conviction - no reasonable doubt - needs to be re-examined. If there IS no doubt i.e. caught in the act or incontrovertible DNA or other evidence then maybe capital punishment could be used.

But if it is (say) only 90% certain that the person is guilty then prison would be appropriate. i.e. we think he done it but we'll put him on ice in case something turns up which shows he didn't.