tough on crime tough on the causes of crime - Page 2

DaveinGermany · 13-01-2011, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

There are too many in prison when another sentence would be more appropriate .
Surely those in authority could have come up with something better than a term of imprisonment .

Such as ? The man was a thief, not an opportune one it wasn't a one off, he planned what he did & he continued doing it ! He worked out how best to screw the system but got caught ! All their whinging & bleating about struggling on their "pittance" of pay makes me want to puke !

Personally I'd have given him the maximum & all the rest of the thieves & liars should be treated just as harshly when caught ! Just think on JCB, next time you're denied a basic service that you've paid for with your taxes because "There's no money" due to cutbacks ! It's because of people like Chaytor & similar gorgers who have emptied the public pot making sure they're ok while Joe Public goes empty handed !

That said, do you still think he should have been shown leniency ?

Alan Varrechia · 13-01-2011, 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Such as ? The man was a thief, not an opportune one it wasn't a one off, he planned what he did & he continued doing it ! He worked out how best to screw the system but got caught ! All their whinging & bleating about struggling on their "pittance" of pay makes me want to puke !

Personally I'd have given him the maximum & all the rest of the thieves & liars should be treated just as harshly when caught ! Just think on JCB, next time you're denied a basic service that you've paid for with your taxes because "There's no money" due to cutbacks ! It's because of people like Chaytor & similar gorgers who have emptied the public pot making sure they're ok while Joe Public goes empty handed !

That said, do you still think he should have been shown leniency ?

What kind of sentence would a normal person have got for fiddling that much from the social. Quite a bit more i would think.

jaysay · 14-01-2011, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Varrechia

What kind of sentence would a normal person have got for fiddling that much from the social. Quite a bit more i would think.

I don't know about that Alan try watching Saints and Scroungers on BBC1 at 11am today, the other day three sisters made false claims for DLA one claimed around £39000 got 8 months another £29000 got 7 months and the third £19000 and got 6 months.

DaveinGermany · 14-01-2011, 12:23

Unfortunately the system is skewed time & time again it happens, people turning the system over get caught, they say they're sorry, BULL ! They're sorry they got caught ! Then a spineless judiciary allows them to tamp out their sob story & shows leniency ! Jeez !

As to getting the money back (if at all) again more spinelessness ! Yes Mrs Bloggs of course you can pay back the 50,000 you scammed from the system while others who truly need the aid have suffered pure hardship (while you got your big telly, went to Jamaica, drove your 4X4 & generally lived it up while others struggled by in utter despair) at 1 quid a month ad infinitum & tell you what we'll continue giving you benefits, wouldn't want to see you out of pocket now would we ?

That is the result of your welfare state total abuse from all quarters at all levels. That's the reason the Country needs a damned good rattling & thieves as that's what they are, should be exposed & hammered with the maximum penalties possible & don't give me the hardship to their families Bullcrap as they certainly didn't give a second thought for other families when they were coining it in !

JCB · 14-01-2011, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

That said, do you still think he should have been shown leniency ?

I didn't say he should be shown leniency .

I was making the point that imprisonment is an inappropriate punishment for many who end up there .
It is costing the people of the country millions of pounds each year to keep many in prison for whom an alternative sentence would be better . e.g. tagging or hard work doing worthwhile community service .

jaysay · 14-01-2011, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

I didn't say he should be shown leniency .

I was making the point that imprisonment is an inappropriate punishment for many who end up there .
It is costing the people of the country millions of pounds each year to keep many in prison for whom an alternative sentence would be better . e.g. tagging or hard work doing worthwhile community service .

Ya but they don't turn up for community service JCB or for that matter pay fines

JCB · 14-01-2011, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

Ya but they don't turn up for community service JCB or for that matter pay fines

The authorities should ensure that they do turn up .
I agree that the punitive system needs to be toughened up , but that does not necessarily mean sending more to prison .

Community service needs to be worthwhile hard work that will benefit the community . It needs to be enforced , and any dodging it should be dealt with accordingly .

I believe that if there is a will there's a way .

DaveinGermany · 14-01-2011, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

I didn't say he should be shown leniency .

That being the case then he was guilty of a crime, he was convicted & duly punished as simple as ! Should you or I ever find ourselves in front of a court for something illegal we would be dealt with by the full might of the legal system relevant to charges brought !

Chaytor's behaviour was that of a thief, he stole from the Public in that he fraudulently acquired monies he wasn't entitled to - Fraud act 2006, I'd assume section 4 (Maximum 5 years) he hasn't even been charged with half that & he'll probably only end up doing a year somewhere soft. Disgusting absolutely disgusting !

Fraud Act: Legal Guidance: The Crown Prosecution Service

jaysay · 15-01-2011, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

The authorities should ensure that they do turn up .
I agree that the punitive system needs to be toughened up , but that does not necessarily mean sending more to prison .

Community service needs to be worthwhile hard work that will benefit the community . It needs to be enforced , and any dodging it should be dealt with accordingly .

I believe that if there is a will there's a way .

Well if they won't turn up of CS and they don't pay fines, to enforce anything they have to be their, or are we going to employ more people riding round picking these people up and taking them to do their tasks for the community, might as well send um to the nick then we know exactly where they are, even if they bet gatted every night and shoot up to alleviate the boredom

DaveinGermany · 24-01-2011, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

I am confused, ir happens a lot these days, how would you deal with people from other countries who break the law here?

They get punished the same as someone born & bred in UK, but with the added proviso that they can be deported if their custodial sentence is longer than 1 year or severe enough to warrant such, theoretically ! But as is so blatantly obvious this doesn't happen very often as they play guess what ? Their Human rights card !!!!

Thereby forcing the British public to once again foot the bill for these unwanted, disgusting & offensive parasites !

I believe it's covered under various acts, Criminal Justice & Immigration act 1991, UK Borders act 2007, Immigration act 1971, take your pick but there is so much legislation & counter legislation that it's a proper cess pit of nauseousness, which only that other bunch of Leeches (Lawyers) can understand & make heads or tails of.

So as usual the UK's wonderful Government past & present have simply tucked their craven tails between their legs & run for the dank & festering recesses of their den of iniquity laughingly referred to as Parliament, to cower meuling, like the spineless, toothless curs they are, whipped into line by Europe & the ever more omnipresent ECHR !

You may notice a little animosity & aggression in my posting on this subject, it's intended ! This is one of those subjects that really infuriates me & I believe a good number of other Folk too.

Ken Moss · 24-01-2011, 18:36

My dad worked as a training instructor for over 35 years at HMPs Garth and Wymott and frequently told us of how many inmates got themselves put away for a better standard of living. The 'human rights' malarkey has a lot to answer for but how do you get out of it without getting out of Europe?

I'm sure that there's good to be found in a European partnership but we don't pull enough of our own strings in my opinion and we don't help ourselves with the Maplins routine that is provided at Her Majesty's pleasure.

jaysay · 24-01-2011, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

My dad worked as a training instructor for over 35 years at HMPs Garth and Wymott and frequently told us of how many inmates got themselves put away for a better standard of living. The 'human rights' malarkey has a lot to answer for but how do you get out of it without getting out of Europe?

I'm sure that there's good to be found in a European partnership but we don't pull enough of our own strings in my opinion and we don't help ourselves with the Maplins routine that is provided at Her Majesty's pleasure.

That human rights malarkey was good old Tony's finest achievement Ken,(or so he said) well it did ensure is wife had a good living for life before passing the poison challis to the "fall guy" good old Flash Gordon

Ken Moss · 24-01-2011, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

That human rights malarkey was good old Tony's finest achievement Ken,(or so he said) well it did ensure is wife had a good living for life before passing the poison challis to the "fall guy" good old Flash Gordon

And the 1980s?

Dad spoke of hot chocolate and doughnuts at suppertime long before Tony's smile graced Downing Street.

jaysay · 24-01-2011, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

And the 1980s?

Dad spoke of hot chocolate and doughnuts at suppertime long before Tony's smile graced Downing Street.

I take exception to you referring to Tony's smile GRACING Downing Street

Wynonie Harris · 25-01-2011, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

My dad worked as a training instructor for over 35 years at HMPs Garth and Wymott and frequently told us of how many inmates got themselves put away for a better standard of living. The 'human rights' malarkey has a lot to answer for but how do you get out of it without getting out of Europe?

I'm sure that there's good to be found in a European partnership but we don't pull enough of our own strings in my opinion and we don't help ourselves with the Maplins routine that is provided at Her Majesty's pleasure.

Quite agree, Ken, but I'm sure your right on, progressive socialist comrades in Hyndburn Labour Party must cringe with embarrassment when they read stuff like this. What say you, Claytonender?