Tough Plans for Young Jobless

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

But if I lacked skills required for a job it would be fantastic to get training in order to help me work for a living.

Hope you're not work shy?

I could get you a job, regardless of any meaningless training, that would have you earning and contributing to society today.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Stanleymad

Unfortunately altho your conservative ideas are nice on paper albeit not new, having done many years of voluntary work within the community unpaid, im looking for work & yet to no avail. Trouble with the idea the BIG FLAW, is that as i find ..... is that im in demand if i work voluntary they cant wait to take me on, bend over backwards which is lovely BUT, thats as far as it leads me, it hasn't led to fruitful employment nor does it impress as much as u would think on your CV. The point being employers would be falling over themselves to get voluntary workers especially if there are perks for then whilst the bonus of not costing them any wages, so effectively getting many weeks work for nowt, so when it comes to the end of the period of this new deal idea for a person they will be chucked to scrap heap as employer can have a reel of free workers, laughing to the bank, where the person who hopes to gain a paid job afterwards will join a queue of others in mean time will be having to claim something.

There will always be jobs going for people wanting/required to work unpaid but as for paid employment - its a different story.

There isn't going to be free work to replace paid workers. I hope this aleviates your fears.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

Hope you're not work shy?

I could get you a job, regardless of any meaningless training, that would have you earning and contributing to society today.

Yes you could, because I have skills required, even if that is just being able to count and use a till. A lot of people cannot do some of the basic things.

[garinda]

[quote=andrewb;581723 I hope this aleviates your fears.[/quote]

No.

Must try harder.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

No.

Must try harder.

Well its really a case of 'the sky appears blue' and 'no it isn't' if you go and buy a paper and read it I don't think you will find any job stealing proposals. It is not a case of free labour. As much as you dislike Thatcher, please try not to confuse policies that may have been somewhat similar (oh and did hers remove benefits like this one does?)

[Stanleymad]

Originally Posted by andrewb

There isn't going to be free work to replace paid workers. I hope this aleviates your fears.

Not really andrew, the work is going to be coming from somewhere, graffitti scrubers are usually paid by the council, gardeners that would be contract would be gone to free workforce..........jobs are going to have to come from somewhere & no matter what area of work that is there are no doubt people that are requiring a paid job to get off the benefit system yet to be taken by free workforce, its going to stub a lot of toes.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Yes you could, because I have skills required, even if that is just being able to count and use a till. A lot of people cannot do some of the basic things.

I'm treating you as unskilled, and with no experience, and I could still find you a job, though sadly as the benefit system stands you may decide a life watching, or appearing on Trisha, is more appealing.

Sadly this proposal from the Conservatives doesn't address this issue.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Stanleymad

Not really andrew, the work is going to be coming from somewhere, graffitti scrubers are usually paid by the council, gardeners that would be contract would be gone to free workforce..........jobs are going to have to come from somewhere & no matter what area of work that is there are no doubt people that are requiring a paid job to get off the benefit system yet to be taken by free workforce, its going to stub a lot of toes.

If you think that enough community work is being done in Accrington alone then you have been sucessfully brainwashed by the Conservative council.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

I'm treating you as unskilled, and with no experience, and I could still find you a job, though sadly as the benefit system stands you may decide a life watching, or appearing on Trisha, is more appealing.

Sadly this proposal from the Conservatives doesn't address this issue.

What would the job be? And yes it does address the issue. If you think after the 12-month scheme and at least 3 years unemployed, they're going to just go back to giving them the benefits and pretend nothing ever happened, you really underestimate them.

[Stanleymad]

Hehehehe Andrew love the enthusiam, but really u need to get of the protective hands of the uni & come down to accy town centre spend a few days admiring the age group u speak of there is plenty there hanging out u cant miss em they are so obvious.

[polly]

There are a million and one community based jobs that do not get done nowadays that need to be done. This scheme does not have to take away paid for jobs.

the one thing that all fit and healthy 18 - 21 year olds have is energy and currently because society pays them for doing nothing this energy is often wasted on anti social activities, which in turn cost the tax/rate payer money.

We need to harness that energy into something that is beneficial for society, This age group, and fit active older people should be doing something that is good for society eg the rest of us. This is not Conservative Dogma it was actual Marx whos said something to the effect of:
'From each according to his ability to each according to their need' Marx, Communism and Real Labour never advocated that sections of society, who were fit and healthy, should sit on their backsides all day doing nothing but causing trouble and problems, whilst the rest of us slogged our guts out to keep them. Personally I am sick of huge tax bills that necessitate me working 7 days a week so some kid can doss around all day doing sod all.
Forget Conservative theology lets get back to Ideology that understood how people really function and make the world a fairer more equal place. If we have to do this through the Conservative party then unfortunately, so be it

[BERNADETTE]

Originally Posted by Loz

I have to say i went on a similar scheme a couple of years ago where you went and looked for jobs for hours 3 or 4 times a week and you could phone employers from there and they provided you with paper and envelopes and stamps and for me it was great.
I found a job within a month and am still there now.
Maybe the scheme just needs a few changes to make it work.

I have also met people who have managed to get jobs by attending this sort of thing and believe it is great that the help is available for people that need it.
The problem with the proposals on offer are that the jobs just aren't out there for a lot of people. When the jobs are there we have got Europeans flooding into the country who are working for less than minimum wages. Any employer is going to opt for cheap labour it is a sad fact of life. As was said earlier it is time to stop immigration and it is time for politicans to recognise this is at the root core of the problem.

[Stanleymad]

Dont disagree with ya Polly tho think it needs to go further than that........start at school particulary high school where future deciding starts, many have no ambition of hope of anything or at least a better way than the downspiral road we call the benefit system.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by polly

There are a million and one community based jobs that do not get done nowadays that need to be done. This scheme does not have to take away paid for jobs.

the one thing that all fit and healthy 18 - 21 year olds have is energy and currently because society pays them for doing nothing this energy is often wasted on anti social activities, which in turn cost the tax/rate payer money.

We need to harness that energy into something that is beneficial for society, This age group, and fit active older people should be doing something that is good for society eg the rest of us. This is not Conservative Dogma it was actual Marx whos said something to the effect of:
'From each according to his ability to each according to their need' Marx, Communism and Real Labour never advocated that sections of society, who were fit and healthy, should sit on their backsides all day doing nothing but causing trouble and problems, whilst the rest of us slogged our guts out to keep them. Personally I am sick of huge tax bills that necessitate me working 7 days a week so some kid can doss around all day doing sod all.
Forget Conservative theology lets get back to Ideology that understood how people really function and make the world a fairer more equal place. If we have to do this through the Conservative party then unfortunately, so be it

I think this partly describes why I am a Conservative. I don't have any ideology to follow, so I'm quite happy to agree with whatever is the right thing, no matter which side of the political spectrum that comes from.

Very good post, I hadn't thought of it from a Marxist perspective.

[polly]

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

I have also met people who have managed to get jobs by attending this sort of thing and believe it is great that the help is available for people that need it.
The problem with the proposals on offer are that the jobs just aren't out there for a lot of people. When the jobs are there we have got Europeans flooding into the country who are working for less than minimum wages. Any employer is going to opt for cheap labour it is a sad fact of life. As was said earlier it is time to stop immigration and it is time for politicans to recognise this is at the root core of the problem.

As an employer I strongly object to your comments about any employer preferring people on below minimum wage
Stop immigration and you must expect other countries to do likewise which will lead to a lot of Brits who have emigrated or who intend to being very upset, including myself as this is my long term aim.

Britain has got become more competitive, this is not helped by Nat Min Wage or the Benefits Culture. We need to except responsability for our own lives sand those of our children