Travellers on Arden Hall Playing Field

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Gobbiner17

Telling it as it is to you is not telling it as it is to someone else. As there is an established prejudice against travellers, due to many court cases showing this, it is likely the law would require your facts for 'telling it as it is' to be very accurate, not exaggerated and not showing any prejudice of any kind, for them even to consider them. Very hard to do.

Have you ever seen a site where travelling gypsies have left the place as neat and tidy as the day they arrived, it don't happen and ends up costing council tax payers a fortune, always remembering that these people never contribute anything to the places they choose to set down for a stay, or for that matter anything else, tax car insurance etc.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well why stick your two penneth in then

I think Graham has every right to 'stick his two penn'oth in'.

I heard from a very reliable source that the Travelling Dangleberries knocked on his door, and asked his other half if they could plug their extention into their electricity supply.

Thus allowing them the privilege of providing power to the illegal camp.

I believe the kind offer to provide free electricity was refused.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by garinda

I think Graham has every right to 'stick his two penn'oth in'.

I heard from a very reliable source that the Travelling Dangleberries knocked on his door, and asked his other half if they could plug their extention into their electricity supply.

Thus allowing them the privilege of providing power to the illegal camp.

I believe the kind offer to provide free electricity was refused.

Quite a honour really.

Seeing as they didn't know who lived at Graham's house, when they made the offer.

Normally we all have the pleasure of funding their electricity supply, when they wire up a power supply from a nearby lampost.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Gobbiner17

Telling it as it is to you is not telling it as it is to someone else. As there is an established prejudice against travellers, due to many court cases showing this, it is likely the law would require your facts for 'telling it as it is' to be very accurate, not exaggerated and not showing any prejudice of any kind, for them even to consider them. Very hard to do.

The prejudice stems from the fact that these travellers steal anything that isn't nailed down(they were cruising down the back alleys in our area last week looking over backyard walls to see if there was anything they could purloin).
They do not pay anything into the community pot, this despite the fact that they never seem to be short of money when they go into local shops for the beer and fags(pulling out wads of notes that would choke a donkey).......the children are feral.
They leave piles of disgusting rubbish when they do vacate a site they have used(often with dirty nappies and such like filth, as well as food waste...encouraging rats of the four legged variety).
This isn't prejudice, it is personal experience.

All these examples I have given, I have seen with my own eyes......now do you want them parked in your area...perhaps you have an area of garden that you could allow them to camp on.

[g jones]

Travellers: Why a Labour Council has improved the situation in just 5 weeks

Last week after just 10 days, travellers were removed from Arden Hall. For too long, too little has been done to ease this near often blight on the public.

There has been cheap criticism that the swift action was due to my home being nearby which in itself is admission that the previous council are admitting that they did not act swiftly. This was the first traveller encampment of a Labour Council barely 7 weeks old.

It is not just in swift action there had been neglect and it quashing the cheap criticism I would like to congratulate Labour cabinet memnber Clare Pritchard for removal of travellers from Huncaot - within a day.

The travellers had moved from Arden Hall to the Huncoat Playing field. Whilst the Labour Council started serving them with the usual court notice, they also swiftly engaged in consultation with Julian Platt at the Police.

Those discussions have resulted in better joined up working and a improved approach to removing travellers, the police having different powers than the Council and where they can move on illegal encampments within 24 hours (or less). Clearly we could have removed the travellers from Arden Hall within a day and not 10 days.

As a result of a Labour Council's swift action, the travellers were served with a notice last night requiring them to move by 5pm today. Hyndburn is a better place because of the changes in personal at the top.

The police have Section 61 powers which were unknown to the Council and highlight the ineffectiveness of the previous administration. These allow them to serve removal notices where there is:

a) Public concern and community tension arising from the encampment

b) Criminal damage (e.g. driving over a playing field)

c) an encampment that prevents the public use of a public facility (such as a playing field)

This would not apply to, say, a derelict piece of land (since there is no public facility) - but id does apply to many of our recreational fields.

What we have all learned from this episode, is that it is always helpful if the public complain directly, and in numbers, to the police as well as the Council. The police will generally choose not to get involved unless pressed to do so.

[cashman]

thats good to know, that the police can move em after 24 hrs, so can i ask how long has this been the case? my reason fer asking is that labour have been in control only 7 weeks n have discovered this fact. whereas P.B. n his minions were in control fer donkeys years n didn't.

[shillelagh]

stuck it in google ....

Friends, Families and Travellers | Section 61

have a nosy through that ... all that advice on how to beat evictions ....

[Margaret Pilkington]

The speed with which they were evicted is because the land is a playing field.
If it were some other unoccupied land then I think it might take a bit longer.
I know that when they were camped on the Aldi Car park it took the Aldi management a few days to get an eviction order, this was because they would move just a couple of their vans off the car park(temporarily)...meaning that there were less than 6 vehicles.
It makes it harder for the authorities to act if there are less than 6 vehicles(or that is what I was told).

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by Gobbiner17

As there is an established prejudice against travellers, due to many court cases showing this,

So the travellers keep taking people to court for predjudice ?

[Gobbiner17]

Great to see the council has acted fast!

Originally Posted by lancsdave

So the travellers keep taking people to court for predjudice ?

To clear up what I meant and answer the other comments about my comment:

I was only trying to say that such words as '******' and 'human vermin' are derogatory to travellers and so prejudiced. If you used similar words against Asians they would rightly be deemed racist. Racism and unfair prejudice against ethnic groups etc can never be justified.

No doubt travellers have suffered much unfair or unjustified prejudice over the years so when I mentioned the law or courts, I just meant that the law will not allow anything akin to racism, so if there is a hint of it then, even if the travellers did all kinds of things wrong, travellers could argue they were being unfairly discriminated against. Just how strong a case they had in each individual case, I have no idea. I have not studied law but I know from various interactions with authorities, which i do not want to discuss, that you have to keep everything totally above board at all times or you will get nowhere.

It looks like in these 2 cases, all has been done in the right and proper fashion resulting in success, so long may this continue. Regarding derelict land it may not be so easy. Travellers parked on some derelict land at the corner of Church traffic lights last year. (I think it is 'derelict') It took several weeks to move them on. However, and in answer to Jaysay, they took all their rubbish with them and the place was left clean and tidy. So not all travellers are the same and so much prejudice is unjustified because it is generalised. If there is genuine justification for disliking travellers, as seems to be the case most of the time, I am simply saying that we should not descend to prejudiced or racist language or behaviour, but behave in a respectful adult to adult manner at all times. Certainly not easy when you are on the receiving end of their disrespect, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Official channels are often a waste of time and effort and even more frustrating than the problem being complained about. But G Jones makes a good point that if we complain in numbers then there is more likely to be action taken.

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The speed with which they were evicted is because the land is a playing field.
If it were some other unoccupied land then I think it might take a bit longer.
I know that when they were camped on the Aldi Car park it took the Aldi management a few days to get an eviction order, this was because they would move just a couple of their vans off the car park(temporarily)...meaning that there were less than 6 vehicles.
It makes it harder for the authorities to act if there are less than 6 vehicles(or that is what I was told).

That's right Margaret, less than 6 vehicles and it becomes more difficult for the police to move them on. We had to go for a court order to move them on from Arden Hall,which obviously takes time. The travellers know the law, but once a court order has been served they usually move on.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

That's right Margaret, less than 6 vehicles and it becomes more difficult for the police to move them on. We had to go for a court order to move them on from Arden Hall,which obviously takes time. The travellers know the law, but once a court order has been served they usually move on.

Sorry if this is a daft question but how long does it take to get a court order and why cant it be the same day?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Thanks for confirming that Bernard.....it was exactly what the manager of Aldi said at the time

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Gobbiner17

. If there is genuine justification for disliking travellers, as seems to be the case most of the time, I am simply saying that we should not descend to prejudiced or racist language or behaviour, but behave in a respectful adult to adult manner at all times. Certainly not easy when you are on the receiving end of their disrespect, but two wrongs don't make a right.

I can't see how saying something that is true can be construed as prejudice.
Prejudice in my book, is when you have no personal experience of a situation, yet make derogatory comments about it.
OK, I agree that racist language does not make for the best discussion.
The bottom line is that many people do not like travellers living close to them because they know that they have a justifiably bad reputation.

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by Neil

Sorry if this is a daft question but how long does it take to get a court order and why cant it be the same day?

I'm not sure Neil, but in the case of Arden Hall we didn't get the court order until week and half after the travellers first arrived, although we went for a court order almost immediately after they arrived. It could be the courts, and how quickly they move.