Trilingual Britain.

garinda · 01-09-2006, 23:37

Recently I received a leaflet from Hyndburn Borough Council about how we can contact our councillors.

Fair enough.

Why though, as on most council documentation, does the information come in two other languages besides English?

Even on the bloody re-cycling sacks the instructions about what can be included are trilingual.

If I emigrated to France I would have to speak, and be able to read French, or employ someone to interpret for me. There is no way would I expect or be offered information in my mother tongue.

Where will this divisive and patronising trilingualism end?

Will Hyndburn become like Wales, where all road signs are in Welsh and English?

I also feel it is wrong to have sections of public libraries that are given over to languages other than English, other than for educational purposes. Again as an example if I moved to Morocco I wouldn't expect to be offered books in a public lending library in my own language, I'd have to buy them or assimilate with the local population and learn the language.

I have absolutely no problem with classes being taught to help people with their English, but I find it very, very patronising for offical bodies to offer forms in anything other than English.

I can understand the need for information to reach all members of the community, but in England it should be in English.

cashman · 01-09-2006, 23:43

agree entirely rindy, theres sod all wrong with any foreigner learning to read english, i think we are the only country ive visited that does this. what this trilingual rubbish costs the tax payer i shudder to think.

junetta · 02-09-2006, 00:16

No help for us in Spain. You have to make the effort and learn the language or employ an interpreter.

We have had some chuckles, especially with our early attempts. Our first Christmas, almost five years ago, was such an instance. I wanted a turkey and after lots of sign language........you can imagine, I don't need to explain..........we were given a number and told to go back later.

Not being too sure how to proceed, we decided to hole up in the bar next door and take turns to check the lie of the land. Four hours and a crate of beer later, they sold us a turkey. We didn't need to understand the language to know that they were taking the pssssssss, but as we took it in good part, they've respected us since.

We wobbled home, clutching the turkey and the tale is still remembered locally.

steeljack · 02-09-2006, 02:00

Wait until you start getting election material in languages other than English, here in California election pamphlets and mail-in voter ballots are automatically printed in English, Spanish and Chinese (other languages available on request ) What gets my goat is that any foreigner including Brits who apply to become a US citizen have to pass an English test (read and write a sentance in basic English). Same applies at the local driving test center , you can take the test in any languge you want .

I do remember 20 odd years ago having to take an eye exam for a driving license in Jeddah Saudi Arabia , not knowing the arabic alphabet the expats were given the childrens eye test , big burly constrution workers with a hand over one eye saying moo moo at a picture of a cow or whoo whoo at a picture of a train is a memory I won't soon forget , wether the Saudis were taking the mickey I don't know but it was something we all had to go through if we wanted a license .

mani · 02-09-2006, 03:48

*L* whoo whoo? really? no way!!

well to be fair if u go india pakistan all the signs there are in dual language. to work in the airport or any other govt building u have to know english. even as far as the shop signs are in both languages even though the chance of getting someone who doesnt speak the native tongue is remote - and those that say its from the raj days etc its not the govt actively encourages this esp in the last 10/15 yrs. there was a time when all the progs on national tv in pakistan was all in urdu but the govt has greatly increased allowances for english progs in pakistan. so u get shows like friends etc coming across. and that for pakistan is a HUGE deal considering they are extreme when it comes to censoring and control.

i'm pretty sure dubai and saudi are the same though i know saudi is very unwelcoming to any other nationality apart from fellow arabs.

as for france thing - france actively encourages more usage of french than english since it was coming to a point when english words were replacing french ones in their daily general usage and the govt felt it had to stop this encroachment. the dutch however havent and alot of the local talking does include english words esp in the younger generation. the fact that in france only a very small percentage is given to non-french programming futher enhances this. france in my opinion has been very hostile to anything foreign. apart from the germans.

steeljack · 02-09-2006, 03:59

Mani , it's true ....there were no dogs on the chart but there was a cat "Meow Meow" ....guess that because some cat had slept on Muhammeds coat/jacket sleeve and according to legand he didn't want to disturb it .......probably a Persian (Shia) cat

mani · 02-09-2006, 04:19

yeah cats are looked favourably in islam but keeps dogs isnt considered islamic...

though there is debate as to the interpretation of this

who knows.

garinda · 02-09-2006, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by mani

france in my opinion has been very hostile to anything foreign. apart from the germans.

The difference is France has laws to actively protect it's culture, be it's language, film industry or even popular music.

How long should council forms be trilingual?

Ten, twenty, thirty years, forver?

If the council came back and said the forms were trilingual because they were afraid some people might not pay their council tax that's rubbish, no other utility bill comes in anything other than English, and presumably they are paid in time otherwise people would have been cut off or up in court.

I have no problem for specific information, English classes for non-Speakers etc., being in other languages, but when offical forms are printed in languages other than English I feel it just adds to feelings of alienation from all sections of the community.

WillowTheWhisp · 02-09-2006, 09:34

I've just come back from several weeks in the Morcambe area and noticed a few signs up there in English and Polish. That struck me as odd until it dawned on me how many Polish people there seem to be around there.

I think it's better that people can understand things, especially if it's something important and official, but also do agree that when people choose to move to a country other than the one where they were born they should make an effort to learn the native language.

It seems kind of ironic to see the bilingual signs in Ireland and the Highlands of Scotland which actively keep the native Gaelic alive, and rightly so. I love the Irish language.

When we were in Tunisia it was relatively easy to find our way around and to talk to people in the towns because most people spoke French and the signs were in French and Arabic but we had fun in the more rural areas where we didn't speak their language and they didn't speak ours - but we got by.

Words have always had a tendancy to drift over from other languages - like the French have had "le weekend" for generations and we've had "deja vu" etc. Where would we be without anoraks and jodhpurs? Maybe we'll all eventually end up speaking the same language some day - and it'll probably turn out to be mandarin!

SPUGGIE J · 02-09-2006, 14:23

In one of the daily rags it seems the Aussies are taking a hard line on this and want all who emigrate there from any part of the world to intigrate and intigrate fully into the Aussie way of life. What will become of it know one knows so maybe its a show of defiance by the gov there that if you want to live there you will become one and lump it.

morgan_brotherz · 02-09-2006, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Recently I received a leaflet from Hyndburn Borough Council about how we can contact our councillors.

Fair enough.

Why though, as on most council documentation, does the information come in two other languages besides English?

Even on the bloody re-cycling sacks the instructions about what can be included are trilingual.

If I emigrated to France I would have to speak, and be able to read French, or employ someone to interpret for me. There is no way would I expect or be offered information in my mother tongue.

Where will this divisive and patronising trilingualism end?

Will Hyndburn become like Wales, where all road signs are in Welsh and English?

I also feel it is wrong to have sections of public libraries that are given over to languages other than English, other than for educational purposes. Again as an example if I moved to Morocco I wouldn't expect to be offered books in a public lending library in my own language, I'd have to buy them or assimilate with the local population and learn the language.

I have absolutely no problem with classes being taught to help people with their English, but I find it very, very patronising for offical bodies to offer forms in anything other than English.

I can understand the need for information to reach all members of the community, but in England it should be in English.

For once. I think we agree.

Bagpuss · 02-09-2006, 20:58

Why should any non-english speaking visitor want to learn our language when the PC brigade bend over backwards to give them all the information they need in whatever language at our expense. It should be learn English or don't unpack you're going back !!!

mthead · 02-09-2006, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagpuss

Why should any non-english speaking visitor want to learn our language when the PC brigade bend over backwards to give them all the information they need in whatever language at our expense. It should be learn English or don't unpack you're going back !!!

Couldnt have put it better mate

Well said....................

jambutty · 03-09-2006, 13:28

It is just another sign of how our government both local and national is bending over backwards and pandering to immigrants.

A word to the immigrants; you are in England, so learn English!

garinda · 03-09-2006, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

It is just another sign of how our government both local and national is bending over backwards and pandering to immigrants.

A word to the immigrants; you are in England, so learn English!

They can, it is the patronising councils of Britain, and other offical bodies, that are fueling a backlash.