Two Policewomen killed.

[churchfcrules]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Whaaaat........a holiday???? To be abandoned on a remote inhospitable island...with a minimum of(baisc) food an no shelter?
Are you some kind of masochist?

oh the solitude!, lol

would love it, (for a few days, only), have slept "rough", loads

so the challenge of surviving, is our most basic instinct, and sometimes we need to get back to basics.

i kop out, and take a tent n sleeping bag with me now, but i could quite happily bivvy down, and top of the fells are quite desolate, you only have bare essentials, cos you have had to carry it up there, so you keep it simple.

i hope to do coast to coast next year, but i want to do it carrying everything i need, and not stopping at a b&b, but its two weeks!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Oh, No...definitely not for me.......but then my age is against me(even though I am fairly fit).....the cold seeps into my joints these days.
We used to go camping when we were younger...but I hated it. Strictly for the arabs in my book.
I want a pleasant roomy hotel room with a good shower that will provide me with an abundant supply of hot water......good meals and a comfy bed. Places to see and take pictures add to my enjoyment of a holiday venue too........but you can keep the scottish island and the solitude.(in the nicest possible way - of course)

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Whaaaat........a holiday???? To be abandoned on a remote inhospitable island...with a minimum of(baisc) food an no shelter?
Are you some kind of masochist?

Originally Posted by churchfcrules

oh the solitude!, lol

would love it, (for a few days, only), have slept "rough", loads

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Oh, No...definitely not for me.......but then my age is against me(even though I am fairly fit).....the cold seeps into my joints these days.
We used to go camping when we were younger...but I hated it. Strictly for the arabs in my book.
I want a pleasant roomy hotel room with a good shower that will provide me with an abundant supply of hot water......good meals and a comfy bed. Places to see and take pictures add to my enjoyment of a holiday venue too........but you can keep the scottish island and the solitude.(in the nicest possible way - of course)

Oh I would love the solitude, always thought if I won the lottery I would buy an island.

Loved camping ever since I was in the guides, also like nice hotels - solution, few nights camping then a hotel to wash it all away! Now we have a motorhome we get the best of both worlds.

Love cruising too all that good food and relaxation. Guess I just like travelling, not too fussed about the accommodation - but I would never fly, like to get to a place slowly... part of the experience.

Sorry folks, making this into a real thread wander.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I don't mind my own company, but I wouldn't really call it solitude.
I like wide open spaces too, but I also don't want to be too far from civilization.......and the amenities it affords.

Prisons(bringing the topic back into line) appear to be far from places of punishment......they appear to have become softer and more like pontins...with facilities for education, physical education and entertainment.
with no worries about where the next meal is coming from....or how the heating is going to be paid for. This cannot be right....and certainly not in the situation where two young women have been wilfully ambushed and their lives ended.

[Less]

Can I just remind folk, two people died, no matter what we think should happen to the sod let loose on bail that took away these lives, it's happened.
My sympathy is and will always remain with the families and friends that have lost their loved ones.
Their grief is our grief because we and our society allow it to happen.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Prisons(bringing the topic back into line) appear to be far from places of punishment......they appear to have become softer and more like pontins...with facilities for education, physical education and entertainment.
with no worries about where the next meal is coming from....or how the heating is going to be paid for. This cannot be right....and certainly not in the situation where two young women have been wilfully ambushed and their lives ended.

Margaret while I respect your views and see what you mean you would not think the same if you were on the inside with no prospect of release.

For many years I visited such a person in prisons large and small, harsh and not so harsh, and received regular correspondence from him in which a lot more was said than at the visits. In the end he did away with himself not because of his crime but because of his situation. I don't know the exact nature of his crime and neither does Richard but he was Richard's best friend at school. They drifted apart when Richard moved but when Richard heard about it he started visiting, this was before I met Richard.

[Less]

Originally Posted by susie123

Margaret while i respect your views and see what you mean you would not think the same if you were on the inside with no prospect of release.

For many years I visited such a person in prisons large and small, harsh and not so harsh, and received regular correspondence from him in which a lot more was said than at the visits. In the end he did away with himself not because of his crime but because of his situation. I don't know the exact nature of his crime and neither does Richard but he was Richard's best friend at school. They drifted apart when Richard moved but when Richard heard about it he started visiting, this was before I met Richard.

So what you're saying is, you were no comfort at all to this man?
Perhaps without your visits he would have coped with the depression of being banged up and still be alive today?

Sometimes no matter what we do, it's perhaps worse than doing nothing?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by susie123

Margaret while I respect your views and see what you mean you would not think the same if you were on the inside with no prospect of release.

For many years I visited such a person in prisons large and small, harsh and not so harsh, and received regular correspondence from him in which a lot more was said than at the visits. In the end he did away with himself not because of his crime but because of his situation. I don't know the exact nature of his crime and neither does Richard but he was Richard's best friend at school. They drifted apart when Richard moved but when Richard heard about it he started visiting, this was before I met Richard.

And you know I respect your views too......everyone has a right to have an opinion.......but in my personal view...and it is personal to me.
If someone takes the life of another person...and that is proved beyond reasonable doubt, then they have no right to expect to receive compassion.....they have no rights at all....they gave them up(of free choice) when they took a life......they do not deserve anything other than the basics to maintain life...their life should contain no pleasure...and they should be locked away with no possibility of release for their crime.

The families of these two young women(who were serving their local community) will have no release, ever, from their grief.

These young women, whose lives were snuffed out by a calculated act of criminality, will never become mothers, never make their parents grandparents...they have been robbed of so many things that are seen as a 'human right', by this man...why should he have any human rights when he has taken theirs?

Do you really believe that prison can rehabilitate men who commit crimes such as this? I don't and I think this man knows that there is little to be feared in the way British justice is administered......he can be out and walking among us in 15 years(or even less).

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Less

So what you're saying is, you were no comfort at all to this man?
Perhaps without your visits he would have coped with the depression of being banged up and still be alive today?

Sometimes no matter what we do, it's perhaps worse than doing nothing?

He was the one requesting the visits Less, he had to send us a visiting order before we could go.

Whether we were of any "comfort" to him I couldn't say, there was obviously a lot going on in his head. I don't think he had any other visitors so whether we were good for him or not I don't know. But we didn't visit him for a while towards the end because he was on the Isle of Wight so maybe the lack of visitors there was a factor. Who knows?

[Less]

Originally Posted by susie123

He was the one requesting the visits Less, he had to send us a visiting order before we could go.

Whether we were of any "comfort" to him I couldn't say, there was obviously a lot going on in his head. I don't think he had any other visitors so whether we were good for him or not I don't know. But we didn't visit him for a while towards the end because he was on the Isle of Wight so maybe the lack of visitors there was a factor. Who knows?

Indeed who knows?
Why not turn your attention towards the unemployed? The homeless (some of whom's only crime is to be mentally ill)?
Or is there no glamour in saying I had a guy on meths throw up over me last night, when trying to impress the middle class?

[churchfcrules]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

And you know I respect your views too......everyone has a right to have an opinion.......but in my personal view...and it is personal to me.
If someone takes the life of another person...and that is proved beyond reasonable doubt, then they have no right to expect to receive compassion.....they have no rights at all....they gave them up(of free choice) when they took a life......they do not deserve anything other than the basics to maintain life...their life should contain no pleasure...and they should be locked away with no possibility of release for their crime.

The families of these two young women(who were serving their local community) will have no release, ever, from their grief.

These young women, whose lives were snuffed out by a calculated act of criminality, will never become mothers, never make their parents grandparents...they have been robbed of so many things that are seen as a 'human right', by this man...why should he have any human rights when he has taken theirs?

Do you really believe that prison can rehabilitate men who commit crimes such as this? I don't and I think this man knows that there is little to be feared in the way British justice is administered......he can be out and walking among us in 15 years(or even less).

devils advocate: what about the criminals families rights, they have committed no crime, do they have a right to see the relative?

or just as the victims family should suffer, so should their own, as part of the punishment?

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Less

Indeed who knows?
Why not turn your attention towards the unemployed? The homeless (some of whom's only crime is to be mentally ill)?
Or is there no glamour in saying I had a guy on meths throw up over me last night, when trying to impress the middle class?

Less we were trying to help a friend and it was a long time ago, fifteen years ago probably.

There's no question of glamour or trying to impress the middle class as you put it. I wouldn't dream of getting involved in anything else that you suggest, that's not my scene at all. End of.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by churchfcrules

devils advocate: what about the criminals families rights, they have committed no crime, do they have a right to see the relative?

or just as the victims family should suffer, so should their own, as part of the punishment?

I understand the devil's advocate thing we have had this question before.
If this were my brother I would disown him........yes the families of the criminals do suffer....and their suffering is not of their own making and it is(if they are decent folk) tinged with shame an embarassment too.
I cannot comment on this chap, it does seem from what is reported, that he had a chequered criminal background.
My sypathies lie with those who are bereaved...their grief will be the hardest.
Their girls were doing a job.....keeping the community safe...they were executed.

And to those who lionise this man on the Facebook pages......calling him a hero, and linking these girls deaths with retribution for the Hillsborough situation...how does that work out?
Are these two WPC's guilty by association - despite the fact that one of them would have been 9 at the time and the other one possible a babe in arms, or not even born??

There is definitely a criminal underclass who are about in our towns.......who knows who is the next to be caught in the crossfire of these thugs?

[churchfcrules]

Lord Tebbit said concerns that such a penalty would lead to miscarriages of justice - with the innocent executed - would be mitigated by the care juries would take deliberating when they knew a person's life was at stake.

He said: "I have kept track year by year since the death penalty was suspended, then abolished, of the number of people who have been killed by persons previously convicted of homicide.

"It has averaged three people a year. About 150 people killed because their killers have been freed to kill again.

"Would our courts have sentenced to death three innocent people a year, year in year out? I doubt it.

"I think it is time we thought again about the deterrent effect of the shadow of the gallows."

looks like maggies old henchman is on the ball, is it now time for a referendum, i have long argued that i have never had a choice in a capital punishment, i have also had the argument used against me, that i have never voted about slavery either.

[cashman]

Its not now time fer a referendum.............Twas time years ago, The penny has long dropped wi the masses imho, But its all Pie In The Sky, One will never happen on any matter, unless the government of the day break the rules n represent the public.