UK Airports at high alert

[Tealeaf]

Just suppose for a moment that 10 planes have just blown up leaving UK airspace and in the mid-atlantic and on the US Eastern seaboard. I wonder what Jambut's post would be? A daming indictment of the failure of the security services? A tirade against muslim extremists? Or most likely, a simple "So what...let's get on with life.." ..because that is where his logic leads. Give me a few cracked guilty heads and a few people locked up than a thousand innocent dead anytime.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

Some of you may recall a thread on here about a month ago which detailed lottery grant spending in Hyndburn; some of you may also recall the background of the 7/7 bombers from last year. Just as a reminder, at least two of those bombers had attended Madrasa schools in Pakistan, which teach an extreme version of the Koran and nowt else, and from which the July bombers got the theological justification for their acts. What then, has the former got to do with the latter?

Well, no one else appeared to spot it, but here is a paste from the list of lottery grant recipients:

Lords House Farm Special Needs Centre 1998-03-26 184792
Lords House Farm Special Needs Centre 2006-05-05 5000
Madrasa Saut-Ul-Quraan 2003-05-22 5000
Madrasa Saut-Ul-Quraan 2004-08-24 5000
Milnshaw Residents Association 2000-08-10 3462
Mount Carmel RC High School 2003-05-22 2940

Irrespective of whether such an organisation fulfills the lottery criteria of being open to all sections of society (women, gays, etc) , the question is what the hell is the lottery doing funding at worse a terrorist organisation and at best, one that is ambivalent and justifing of the acts which have been stopped today? No doubt we shall find that a number of those currently in custody have attended such an establishment.

In Ireland the Catholics and Protestants have bombed the hell out of each other for the last 30 years - are you saying that because I'm a Catholic over here I should be tarred with the same brush?

[chav1]

Originally Posted by Gayle

In Ireland the Catholics and Protestants have bombed the hell out of each other for the last 30 years - are you saying that because I'm a Catholic over here I should be tarred with the same brush?

can i put the feathers on please

[accymel]

It makes a mockary of religion really & the abuse of it.

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by Gayle

In Ireland the Catholics and Protestants have bombed the hell out of each other for the last 30 years - are you saying that because I'm a Catholic over here I should be tarred with the same brush?

Try as I might, I am unable to make any sense of this comment. Can someone help?

[Gayle]

You know what I'm getting at!

You're saying that because Muslims who have been to one school in one part of the world are involved in atrocities that all Muslims who are connected to the same school in other parts of the world are as guilty.

My point is that the Catholics and Protestants have been involved in some pretty atrocious acts in Ireland but that doesn't mean that Catholics who learn the same teaching in England respond in the same way. I was using this as an example.

[Gayle]

What puzzles me is that the security forces knew it was going to be an attack on planes. I mean surely these people all had to arrive at the airport by some form of transport yet the security forces were waiting at the airport to get them. How did they know, with all certainty, that they weren't going to set the bombs off on the M25 or the train on the way?

This means that security forces either had an inside man or that the bombers are giving them information. Doesn't this worry people that the two sides are co-operating in some way?

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by Gayle

This means that security forces either had an inside man or that the bombers are giving them information. Doesn't this worry people that the two sides are co-operating in some way?

Who else is involved in this conspiracy? The Jews? The Freemasons? Councillor Britcliffe?

Don't be a crackpot altogeather, Gayle. It is possible that the services had an inside man (or woman) or they may have not. They may have relied on a whistleblower or purely on covert surveillance and taps. We do not know. What is most likely, however, is that they would not have decided to move until they reached the point where they knew the widest possible circle of terrorists without compromising public safety. A catch of 21 is excellent, although no doubt we shall shortly be seeing before us a motley parade of civil rights lawyers protesting their clients innocence plus the human rights brigade spouting forth their usual late night TV rant on the abuse of state power.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

Who else is involved in this conspiracy? The Jews? The Freemasons? Councillor Britcliffe?

Don't be a crackpot altogeather, Gayle. It is possible that the services had an inside man (or woman) or they may have not. They may have relied on a whistleblower or purely on covert surveillance and taps. We do not know. What is most likely, however, is that they would not have decided to move until they reached the point where they knew the widest possible circle of terrorists without compromising public safety. A catch of 21 is excellent, although no doubt we shall shortly be seeing before us a motley parade of civil rights lawyers protesting their clients innocence plus the human rights brigade spouting forth their usual late night TV rant on the abuse of state power.

I think this is a case of the kettle calling the crackpot here. You were the one who had the whole, lottery based conspiracy going on. Surely it's not unreasonable to ask how they got such detailed information!

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Gayle

What puzzles me is that the security forces knew it was going to be an attack on planes. I mean surely these people all had to arrive at the airport by some form of transport yet the security forces were waiting at the airport to get them. How did they know, with all certainty, that they weren't going to set the bombs off on the M25 or the train on the way?

This means that security forces either had an inside man or that the bombers are giving them information. Doesn't this worry people that the two sides are co-operating in some way?

Gayle I think you have to accept that the current level of information is patchy and inconsistent. But really and this may pee people off, the security forces will have had firm intelligence of a change that cause this action to be taken. Stopping people at the airport was intended to stop unidentified individuals and copycat terrorist from carrying out their intentions after it became know the police had acted.

What is regretful is t you can not seal off the country and prevent the movements of a nation. If someone ignited a device on the motorway it may have killed a dozen people, in the air it might kill 3 or 4 hundred and untold number on the ground if a device was ignited over a major population centre. It’s a calculated risk the security services would take. I’m sorry if this is an unpopular statement.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

A catch of 21 is excellent, although no doubt we shall shortly be seeing before us a motley parade of civil rights lawyers protesting their clients innocence plus the human rights brigade spouting forth their usual late night TV rant on the abuse of state power.

Totally would agree with you on this point though.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by jambutty

We are all taking for granted that the security services were telling the whole truth. Remember a while back when Heathrow was surrounded by heavy armour, no less, because of a ‘security alert’. Just exactly how many ‘terrorists’ were brought to book then? Where were the rocket launchers that were supposed to bring down a plane as it landed or took off?

Then there was the intense search of that house for a chemical bomb that wasn’t there.

Obviously at the time there was intelligence suggesting otherwise. You'd be the first person to jump up and say something if they didn't act when they had recieved intelligence.

By a strange coincidence it was only the other day that the introduction of ID cards was back on the agenda. Then yesterday some Minister was pointing out that we the general public would have to accept a reduction in personal freedom and liberties as part of the battle against terrorism. And now we have this major alert because the security services stated that there MIGHT be bombs in hand luggage on up to 10 planes leaving for the USA.

Strange coincidence? Erm, the police don't listen to orders from our Government. You seem to be suggesting that really nothing was going to happen at all and that they're doing this to get ID cards passed, do you know how sillly that sounds?

To counter this threat the authorities decreed that only certain items contained in a clear plastic bag (supplied by the airport) would be allowed as ‘hand luggage’ with the remainder going into the hold with the main baggage. Strange how the airport just happened to have clear plastic bags to hand for this purpose. Or was it strange? Just how many bomb making bits of equipment have been found? No one is saying. Is that because nothing has been found?

Strange how they 'just happened to have clear plastic bags to hand for this purpose'
WHAT? Just think about what you're saying, first of all how hard is it to aquire plasic bags if you don't already have them?
Second, do you not think they plan things like this in advance? They knew about the threat for a while, and im sure the airports have planned stuff like this since 9/11 at least.
Nothings been found because nobody said it was going to happen today, it could be tomorrow, it could be next week. They are there to stop copycat attacks.

If the terrorist leaders had more than half a brain cell between them, and I’m sure that they are a darned sight cleverer than most of us, they would know that by committing an explosive atrocity would only get the people’s backs up and a resolve not to give in. However false alarms with an occasional real event would keep the security services stretched beyond breaking point and frighten the hell out of the public. Even farmer Giles up in the hills.

They don't have more than half a brain sell between them do they, they're blowing each other up for gods sake.

[Billcat]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

A catch of 21 is excellent, although no doubt we shall shortly be seeing before us a motley parade of civil rights lawyers protesting their clients innocence....

And let's be glad that is what we shall see, rather than some form of un-British (and, I hope, un-American) summary justice! The right to legal counsel, a fair trial, and a vigorous legal defense is one of the things that makes our countries pretty special. If we give up our most basic and cherished rights, then the terrorirsts will have gained a very significant victory.

That said, I certainly hope that the government is well-prepared to prosecute any terrorists!

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by Billcat

And let's be glad that is what we shall see, rather than some form of un-British (and, I hope, un-American) summary justice! The right to legal counsel, a fair trial, and a vigorous legal defense is one of the things that makes our countries pretty special. If we give up our most basic and cherished rights, then the terrorirsts will have gained a very significant victory.

That said, I certainly hope that the government is well-prepared to prosecute any terrorists!

That may well have been true 20 or even 10 years ago Billcat, but unfortunatly what was once the common legal inheritance of both the US and England, stretching all the way back to Magna Carta, no longer applies in the latter case.

We have sold out to the European concepts of justice and human rights with the result that a multitude of summary obstacles now stand in the way of any successful prosecution of those committing acts of terrorism within or against the UK. We have a publicly funded legal industry whose sole purpose is no longer the execution of natural justice but to make money for it's practitioners, be they solicitors, barristers or court of appeal judges. That is why a dozen Afgan Hijackers are free to walk the streets of this country, why extremist clerics are free to preach hatred and promote violence and why child pornographers can claim damages of hundreds of thousands for a minor wound suffered in the course of an anti-terrorist raid. All of them, by the way, in receipt of free state housing and public doles.

[CASPER]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

They wouldn't be martyrs if they buriied them in a mass grave ang filled it with pig entrails......but then that isn't PC is it? (Is killing innocent people PC? - the way our government act at times you'd think it was)

I don't think that you are being fair to the pigs.:engsmil: