UKIP win a seat. - Page 3

Gordon Booth · 11-10-2014, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

Perhaps, those that 'know' should take time out to ensure that we plebs are informed.

I really can't understand why all you 'plebs' keep wanting to have opinions, thinking what you think matters, keep wanting to have a say in how your country is run.
Manifestos are only words, once in power they're forgotten. It doesn't matter if UKIP have no proper manifesto, it wouldn't mean anything, any more than the Labour, Tory or Lib Dems manifestos mean anything.
The sooner you 'plebs' realise that you're plebs because you didn't go to Eaton and Cambridge, that you're not millionaires, the sooner you'll accept that you'll always be 'plebs'.
That will leave those who should be in power(and rightly are) to get on with doing what they know is best for them(and therefore best for you).
After all, they were born to be in power, educated to be in power and know they deserve to be in power. And underneath you know that too.
Now and again they'll let a few 'plebs' in Parliament, that's Democracy after all. As long as they're not allowed any real power they do no harm and it looks good. Frank Fielding for instance.Brilliant man kept down.
As for listening to you 'plebs'- why should they? They've never been and never will be 'plebs', they don't understand how you live but they don't need to. Communicating with you is just wasting their time(as Gordon Brown said when he forgot he was still being filmed). You wouldn't understand and they've already decided what's best for you. No need to tell you or Heaven forbid listen to you- you might start getting ideas of grandeur.
The sooner you all settle down, pay your taxes and let them get on with it, the better it will for them(and for you). If you're stuck there's always a food bank handy.
If you can't sleep at night just keep repeating to yourself 'They know best, they know best'. That way lies happiness.

Guinness · 11-10-2014, 13:18

Maybe one of our esteemed Labour councillors can comment on these ground breaking Labour ideas aired at the last conference

Lewis Silkin - Journal - Employment law at the party conferences - Labour

Wonder how much of our money will be squandered on the 'social background monitoring'....and just look at the well thought out proposed apprentice policy.

Note the concluding paragraph..light on substance, raft of new legislation for employers, disaster in practice....

Dont the Scots have a saying about chucking stones in greenhouses??

cmonstanley · 11-10-2014, 14:33

Bringing nationality and generalising people isnt really a political debate se nigel farage is married to a german and has french name the irony lol still no answer on employment law

Margaret Pilkington · 11-10-2014, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

I really can't understand why all you 'plebs' keep wanting to have opinions, thinking what you think matters, keep wanting to have a say in how your country is run.
Manifestos are only words, once in power they're forgotten. It doesn't matter if UKIP have no proper manifesto, it wouldn't mean anything, any more than the Labour, Tory or Lib Dems manifestos mean anything.
The sooner you 'plebs' realise that you're plebs because you didn't go to Eaton and Cambridge, that you're not millionaires, the sooner you'll accept that you'll always be 'plebs'.
That will leave those who should be in power(and rightly are) to get on with doing what they know is best for them(and therefore best for you).
After all, they were born to be in power, educated to be in power and know they deserve to be in power. And underneath you know that too.
Now and again they'll let a few 'plebs' in Parliament, that's Democracy after all. As long as they're not allowed any real power they do no harm and it looks good. Frank Fielding for instance.Brilliant man kept down.
As for listening to you 'plebs'- why should they? They've never been and never will be 'plebs', they don't understand how you live but they don't need to. Communicating with you is just wasting their time(as Gordon Brown said when he forgot he was still being filmed). You wouldn't understand and they've already decided what's best for you. No need to tell you or Heaven forbid listen to you- you might start getting ideas of grandeur.
The sooner you all settle down, pay your taxes and let them get on with it, the better it will for them(and for you). If you're stuck there's always a food bank handy.
If you can't sleep at night just keep repeating to yourself 'They know best, they know best'. That way lies happiness.

Gordon, I think this post echoes the sentiments that Eric and I have posted.
What you are saying in a nutshell is that there is no democaracy.
This is also something I have been saying for a long time........That politicians are all the same.......whichever party flag they carry...again, you took the words right out of my mouth.

cashman · 11-10-2014, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

Bringing nationality and generalising people isnt really a political debate se nigel farage is married to a german and has french name the irony lol still no answer on employment law

Well Farage aint a member of accyweb yeh clown, doubt very much if he reads it, if yeh want to know write n ask him, but NO yeh would rather be a joke on here.

Eric · 11-10-2014, 20:16

We all know ... at least those of us who have an IQ higher than that of a salad bar ... that political promises, like wedding vows,

are "more honoured in the breach than in the observance." But what bugs my ass about politicians is that they "protest too much." ("Hamlet"'s getting quite a work out, eh.

) If some candidate insists over and over that he is "honest" ... mmm "lying sonofabitch" comes to mind. And, over and over, they pledge themselves to do things that are part of their job. "I will represent you" ... that's what you are supposed to do you dumb mother ... that's why you are standing for election.

But I still think that platforms are largely irrelevant. We all know, in a general sense, what we will get from a particular party. Let's take the tories: expect nothing positive on the environment; look for lower corporate taxes and larger loopholes; don't be surprised if some of their rank and file MPs support stricter limitations on abortions, and fewer concessions to gay couples; if you are poor, look to get poorer. So it ain't all that necessary to put forward specific ... mmm ... let's call them "lies".

Maybe UKIP appeals ... like the Scottish "Yes" campaign ... to the heart, rather than to reason. Britons don't want to lose their identity. They don't want that identity to be diluted in a what looks to become a more politically unified Europe (dominated by Germany

).

I think I've mentioned this before, but I don't think Britons, particularly the English are Europeans. I don't know if UKIP is the right thing for the UK. But from what I read, they seem to be the only ones prepared to speak out for Britain as an idea and an ideal. This might just be enough to give them the balance of power after the next General Election.

Margaret Pilkington · 11-10-2014, 20:52

Eric, it is no good having the balance of power if you have not a clue about what you are doing.
You have to have a map of the nail( a plan of attack) you cannot lead if you do not know where you are going...still less, if you don't know how to get there.

Ideals need actions to make them work.

If I am going to vote, I need to know what the man I am voting for stands for.
I need to know what plans are being made for the country...and where the little man figures in these plans.

there is a lot of work needed to foster interest in politics, to mend bridges(political ones)......and I cannot see that there is enough time between now and the next election to do all that needs to be done.
Ukip talk about taking us out of Europe, but unless they are elected in droves they will be in no position to have any impact on the issue.

As for us not being Europeans...that is spot on!

Guinness · 11-10-2014, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Ukip talk about taking us out of Europe, but unless they are elected in droves they will be in no position to have any impact on the issue.

And that is precisely why people like you who spoil should instead vote the way you have been posting on this forum for years...

You want out of Europe...Jones won't do that (unless there is a change of leadership for him to brown nose), neither will whatever tory central government sees fit to impose on us yokels, the libdems will vote with whoever shares their sweet money with them...so logic dictates the only way you should vote is UKIP. And if people who for one reason or another stopped voting or spoil decided to actually vote next year maybe they would get elected in droves.

Stuff the one trick pony argument...government after government have abandoned their manifestos the moment they come to power anyway, as an example....the libdems totally backslid on almost every single promise they made to their voters to suck up to the tories four years ago

Margaret Pilkington · 11-10-2014, 21:57

I don't want a party led by Nigel Farage. They are no different to the other parties.....they have no discernible policies.....the other parties have policies that they lie about in their manifesto's.....but having no policies is just as bad.
How can you lead if you don't know how to get where you are going?

If I see a politician who is worthy of my cross in the box, then they will get it......but I was stung last time around. Believing someone who lived in the area, knew the area, had worked in the area.....someone who would know how important what his voters had invested in him....and what happened to that?
Well, it turns out that this person thinks more of his own political career than he does of his constituents.
Not only that, we are insulted by being told we do not have the brain power to decide what is good for us.
Until I see someone who I consider will is ten to the concerns of the little man.....I will continue to scribble 'none of the above' on my paper.
Believe me I do not do this lightly or without thought....but I have to follow my conscience.

Guinness · 11-10-2014, 22:42

Way I'm reading what you say is...

You wont vote for UKIP because its led by Farage who you dislike but if UKIP put someone up who you did like you would vote for him? You'd rather see Jones in again, no matter how disappointed you are with him rather than voting tactically to get him out.

You are NEVER going to find a politician who meets ALL of your criteria. Personally I'm a labconcommugreenlib in my political belief and I suspect that the majority of the population fall into a similar category..Our current electoral system with its first past the post mentality has not been relevant to its electorate since the advent of the information age..and the problem is that nothing will change as long as people stay at home or spoil their votes.

The libdems screwed the country 4 years ago..they could have forced real change to the system but they bottled for a bit of power...cant see Farage doing that for all his faults. UKIP is messing with the 'safe seat' premise and the two big parties are running scared....they will be looking to get the spoilers and non voters back into the fold with nonsense about one trick ponies, scaremongering about racism and fascism, and banging on about manifestos whilst ignoring their own

keith higson · 12-10-2014, 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowlf

I am a firm believer in everyone voting. As far as I'm concerned anyone who does not vote should have no opinion at all on what ever the government or local council does. I am told that in Australia it is an offence not to vote and folk are fined for not doing so.

In the Federal Elections here in Oz it is NOT compulsory to vote however every Registered voter must have their name marked off the voting register, which is kept in the local constituants area , as having attended a voting booth, it has been suggested by some suspicious cynical people that some individuals have had their name marked off more than one Register enabling them to have multiple votes - what shameless accusations. Surely the human race would not stoop so low?

keith higson · 12-10-2014, 01:36

Further to my comments about voting procedures in OZ.

By having their names marked off the Register they are then issued with the appropriate voting papers , however there is nothing to say that they must accept them or mark their choices off .

Personally I believe that voting should be compulsory, but then I also believe that if you migrate to a country either legally or not then you should obey the laws, and respect the culture of your adopted country.

Margaret Pilkington · 12-10-2014, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinness

Way I'm reading what you say is...

You wont vote for UKIP because its led by Farage who you dislike but if UKIP put someone up who you did like you would vote for him? You'd rather see Jones in again, no matter how disappointed you are with him rather than voting tactically to get him out.

You are NEVER going to find a politician who meets ALL of your criteria. Personally I'm a labconcommugreenlib in my political belief and I suspect that the majority of the population fall into a similar category..Our current electoral system with its first past the post mentality has not been relevant to its electorate since the advent of the information age..and the problem is that nothing will change as long as people stay at home or spoil their votes.

The libdems screwed the country 4 years ago..they could have forced real change to the system but they bottled for a bit of power...cant see Farage doing that for all his faults. UKIP is messing with the 'safe seat' premise and the two big parties are running scared....they will be looking to get the spoilers and non voters back into the fold with nonsense about one trick ponies, scaremongering about racism and fascism, and banging on about manifestos whilst ignoring their own

Oh dear, it isn't quite as clear cut as you would think.
It isn't just that I dislike Nigel Farage(he reminds me of a dodgy used car salesman - but that's an aside).....I do not trust what he says.
And why would you vote for someone who says stop those with HIV from coming into the country.....it shows that he has not thought the ideas very well.

Now had he said something like 'anyone who wishes to make a home here and has a serious health issue needs to have health insurance' then that would have been more acceptable.....but he made a contentious statement.....one which could be considered inflammatory even......that is not a good start!

As for me not being able to find someone to vote for(given my exacting criteria).
I do not expect to find someone who meets all the criteria.

I suppose it is like looking for 'Mr Right'.
I would vote for someone who meets most of my core values.
Someone who is prepared to listen to the concerns of the electorate.
Someone who can demonstrate that they have some understanding of what the little man is battling.....that lives on this planet, that doesn't claim for renovations to a duck house while denying a living allowance for those suffering with life limiting illness.
What I am saying is that I would settle for 'Mr Right Some of the Time'.....someone who had some ideas that would translate into action....that knew where the country as a whole needed to be.
Someone who would stop sending aid money out to countries who do not need it.
Spend the money on educating our children, paying for cancer drugs, establishing youth employment strategies.....I could go on and on (as you have no doubt, probably guessed).
My banners colour.....none! I am one of those who is yet to be converted, to be convinced....but if no party has the gumption to listen then my voice is unheard, my vote is lost.

Margaret Pilkington · 12-10-2014, 09:17

As to the current voting format....with 'a first past the post' winner.
I covered that in post number 10.
I always stir my stumps and go to the polling station...so my sin isn't one of apathy....but I am sure that from the way I respond to political issues, you already know that.
I have long discussions with my daughter(who is another committed political animal) and I have heard all the arguments on the folly of spoiling my vote.....still my conscience prevails.

Lucysgirl · 12-10-2014, 12:55

Being a mother I'm very rarely wrong

but I hold my hand up and admit that I have changed my views since the decision to give 16-18 year old teenagers a vote in the Scottish Referendum. The reason being is that most of them were taught not to close their ears and eyes and blindly put their cross on a piece of paper without first weighing up all the pros and cons. Quite often this isn't the case with older generations who align themselves to one party out of a perceived loyalty.

It's been interesting to see the break in a habit of a lifetime for thousands of voters now that the clarion call has got persistently louder of the need to unite "US" against "THEM" who purportedly are causing us more problems than we can handle.

Has anyone seen UKIP's proposals if ever they were to win a general election? The only manifesto I found is shown on the link below which mainly outlines how the UK would regain control of our seas, etc.

British tax payers money is given to members of the European market to do their best for us and I'm interested in how MY money is spent:

What interested me most was the admission made about current UKIP Members of the European Market:-

"Some of us go there" :
"We don't go there to make the EU better..."
"We go there ... making sure we know what they're up to"
"making sure we know what they're cooking up"

"Others spend more time back here spreading the word and campaigning to get us out".

Other than the above, there's no mention of how they will create markets for our industries which should be somewhere near the top of the list, e.g. The Tories reversed Labour's actions which closed many of our foreign embassies that had impacted on UK trade by cutting us off from prospective customers around the world.

The main message is that UKIP are not using my tax money to my advantage. They're not participating in making the Union a better partner but mainly to furnish an office in which to advertise their own political aims

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net...pdf?1398869254