Under the radar ....

[Eric]

Much of what goes on in Africa, unless it is war, genocide, or oil and minerals tends to go unnoticed ... have to admit, I rarely give the place a thought ... but I heard on CBC radio last night (on As It Happens, great show) that Uganda is preparing laws to make being gay a capital offence ... and having AIDS will also, ironically, carry the death penalty. Not only that, those who know someone who is gay, and who don't report the fact to the authorities will face a life sentence! And ... I have to stress here that the CBC is not given to airing views about conspiracies ... the author of "The Pink Swastika" (google it if you wish), Scott Lively is involved as is The Family .... you can also find some interesting stuff by googling Gay Uganda.

[accyman]

so just incase starvation and disease dosnt kill them off enough the government over there is bringing in executions just to be sure.

considering how much aid this country gets each year from all over the world you really would think that by now they would have got their act together wouldnt you

[steeljack]

another story that didn't make much of a blip earlier this month was the news that no African leader qualified for the annual $5 million African Leadership prize , usually given to someone for his good work in stamping out corruption

No winner for $5 million African leadership prize

[Neil]

Originally Posted by accyman

so just incase starvation and disease dosnt kill them off enough the government over there is bringing in executions just to be sure.

With less mouths to feed they could make starvation a thing of the past

[Eric]

Originally Posted by accyman

so just incase starvation and disease dosnt kill them off enough the government over there is bringing in executions just to be sure.

considering how much aid this country gets each year from all over the world you really would think that by now they would have got their act together wouldnt you

The question of aid is a tricky one ... if they don't get it, the poor sods at the bottom of the heap are in a mess ... if they do get it, the rich and powerful take the cream and the poor sods get a cup of skim milk .... and most of the aid from the US is military aid, stuff that doesn't go well between two slices of bread .... but there again, there's no bread. It's a terrible situation ... I think that reading Romeo Dallaire's "Shake Hands with The Devil" has made me a little more sensitive to what is going on in that sad continent.

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Eric

. and most of the aid from the US is military aid, stuff that doesn't go well between two slices of bread ....

lets not forget the French and others

Ex-French minister gets jail in Angola arms trial

I guess the pirates hi-jacking the ships off the Somali coast carrying food aid are also non-Africans as well

[SPUGGIE J]

Originally Posted by Eric

The question of aid is a tricky one ... if they don't get it, the poor sods at the bottom of the heap are in a mess ... if they do get it, the rich and powerful take the cream and the poor sods get a cup of skim milk .... and most of the aid from the US is military aid, stuff that doesn't go well between two slices of bread .... but there again, there's no bread. It's a terrible situation ... I think that reading Romeo Dallaire's "Shake Hands with The Devil" has made me a little more sensitive to what is going on in that sad continent.

Sounds like the problem in Zimbabwe with Robert Mugabe n his cronnies having more crean than the whole of Devon.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by steeljack

lets not forget the French and others

Ex-French minister gets jail in Angola arms trial

I guess the pirates hi-jacking the ships off the Somali coast carrying food aid are also non-Africans as well

The French are forgettable ... but they are major arms dealers ... I do believe that the Exocet that sank HMS Sheffield had a French connection. But, I think that legal military aid from the west is troubling ... the result of such aid is that corrupt governments are given a large measure of legitimacy. And as long as corrupt govts. pretend to be allies of the West, their people will continue to live in oppressive conditions that most people who live in relative peace, prosperity, and security will ignore. Sad.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Neil

With less mouths to feed they could make starvation a thing of the past

you could say if we stopped providing aid all the victims would die off and then there would be no one left to exploit

on teh plus side children in need would no longer be needed

[Galloping Hairpin]

[QUOTE=Eric... the author of "The Pink Swastika" (google it if you wish), Scott Lively is involved as is The Family ...[/QUOTE]

Sorry I may a bit dense or something but could you just explain this to me little...
Who or what is The Family? Is it a religious group or what?
Also I googled The Pink Swastika and it seems to be an anti-gay book, so are you suggesting that the author of this book is involved in putting 'anti-gay' laws into place in Uganda? If so I find this quite a sweeping statement to make...What evidence is there to support this?
I may have got the wrong end of the stick, so tell me to shut up if I have....

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Galloping Hairpin

Sorry I may a bit dense or something but could you just explain this to me little...
Who or what is The Family? Is it a religious group or what?
Also I googled The Pink Swastika and it seems to be an anti-gay book, so are you suggesting that the author of this book is involved in putting 'anti-gay' laws into place in Uganda? If so I find this quite a sweeping statement to make...What evidence is there to support this?
I may have got the wrong end of the stick, so tell me to shut up if I have....

I think I would stop short at direct involvement. The Family is a fundamentalist christian political organization. While it does not seem to be involved directly in US politics and Foreign Policy, it does have tremendous influence with right wing politicians; it is one of the most politically well-connected organizations in the US. Current members include 11 US senators, (9 Republicans and 2 Southern Democrats ... maybe Steeljack will correct me on this, but I understand that some southern Democrats are further to the right than some northern Republicans) .... and that is over 20% of the Senate. Two former Joint Chiefs of Staff are also members. Our old buddy George W. Bush is very closely connected to the organization ... not, in all probability, because of some devious conspiracy, but out of personal conviction. Those who subscribe to the policies of The Family would accept the thesis of The Pink Swastika, which most of us would dismiss as, at best, pseudo history.

Leaders in Africa value US support, and crave US weapons in order to maintain their power. Uganda, or the current govt. of Uganda, has always been anti-gay, but the new laws seem to have turned up the heat on gays.

The potential for influence is there .... I do stop short of "conspiracy", way short ... and, while it may not have created the anti-gay stance of the govt., it could exacerbate what already exists.

Whatever ... it seems like what already is a terrible situation has just got one hell of a lot worse.

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Eric

I think I would stop short at direct involvement. The Family is a fundamentalist christian political organization. While it does not seem to be involved directly in US politics and Foreign Policy, it does have tremendous influence with right wing politicians; it is one of the most politically well-connected organizations in the US. Current members include 11 US senators, (9 Republicans and 2 Southern Democrats ... maybe Steeljack will correct me on this, but I understand that some southern Democrats are further to the right than some northern Republicans) .... and that is over 20% of the Senate. Two former Joint Chiefs of Staff are also members. Our old buddy George W. Bush is very closely connected to the organization ... not, in all probability, because of some devious conspiracy, but out of personal conviction. Those who subscribe to the policies of The Family would accept the thesis of The Pink Swastika, which most of us would dismiss as, at best, pseudo history.

Leaders in Africa value US support, and crave US weapons in order to maintain their power. Uganda, or the current govt. of Uganda, has always been anti-gay, but the new laws seem to have turned up the heat on gays.

The potential for influence is there .... I do stop short of "conspiracy", way short ... and, while it may not have created the anti-gay stance of the govt., it could exacerbate what already exists.

Whatever ... it seems like what already is a terrible situation has just got one hell of a lot worse.

This is the bunch that ensures that any reference to family planning services (contraception and womens services) are omitted and abstinance promoted from any and all foriegn aid bills , they also ensure that food aid and other civilian aid programs are directed by "approved" christian charities which means the Catholic and Episcopalian (Anglican/Cof E) are not included .
It's effect on the military (USAF) is more insidious , there are a couple of cases going thru the court system where people have been delayed/denied promotion because it's been noticed they were 'AWOL' during on-base Church services ...seen by some of the higher -ups as a lack of patriotism ....same reason for the ban on "out" gays in the military , though I think Obomba will change this in the near future .

slight wander .....I once told some American fundamentalist 'christian taliban' friends that they were apostates and belonged to a cult because they didn't attend a proper Church , ie one named after a Saint (Mark, Luke , Mary etc.) the looks on their faces was priceless

[Galloping Hairpin]

I see....
Hmmm.... So as usual it's a case of religion dabbling in politics...something Jesus himself condemned....

It is noticeable throughout history that the more extreme and violent a regime, the more you can be sure it will be using some religious conviction to support it.
I hadn't heard of the 'Family' (they sound anything BUT that), but it doesn't surprise me to hear that they are American and deeply involved in politics. I am surprised that Uganda will go to such radical steps just to please the U.S though as this must surely turn other nations against them or is that a bit naive?
And if they are religiously motivated with a political aim in view, then I would imagine we'll start hearing of oppression against other religious sects or groups in Uganda too.....

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Galloping Hairpin

I see....
Hmmm.... So as usual it's a case of religion dabbling in politics...something Jesus himself condemned....

It is noticeable throughout history that the more extreme and violent a regime, the more you can be sure it will be using some religious conviction to support it.
I hadn't heard of the 'Family' (they sound anything BUT that), but it doesn't surprise me to hear that they are American and deeply involved in politics. ....

Lots of stuff on them here ..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fam...l_organization)

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Galloping Hairpin

I see....
Hmmm.... So as usual it's a case of religion dabbling in politics...something Jesus himself condemned....

...

yeah i bet he wasnt too keen on scientfic proof messing with religion either , mainly because it disproves his dads position