Underage Sex Is Not Paedophilia?? - Page 5

SPUGGIE J · 21-11-2006, 18:54

Is it that parents find it embarresing to broach the subject? Being a parent my daughter is still my little baby girl though she is 11 in March and growing up fast.

accymel · 21-11-2006, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

It's impossible to make generalisations about when people are mature. Some people marry at 16 and it lasts for lfe. Others wait longer but still end up falling out of love again and getting divorced.

Tho marriage & love is not necessarily a maturity issue more a personal growth one, people fall in & out of love for many reasons even if at least one of them is mature - marriage & relationships are a whole big kettle of fish on their own... certainly these days..

WillowTheWhisp · 21-11-2006, 19:00

That was the point I was trying to make. You can't just plonk an age limit on things and say over such and such an age everything will be hunky-dory. A friend of mine endured an awful relationship until she got the nerve up to get out. She was mature when she went into it but that didn't stop her making the biggest mistake she'd ever made.

accymel · 21-11-2006, 19:06

True Willow it can happen to the best of us lol

I think that there needs to be a clear clarification of end of childhood to beginning of adulthood meaning when i was 16........u was old enough to have sex, thus risk having kids - tho u cant drive/take a test till earliest 17, u cant vote, drink legally, go to adult prison till your 18 & then when you are 21 u are legally accountable as an adult

- even then no clear end & start is there???? & thats doing everything legal & above board!

Tinkerbelle · 21-11-2006, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

You can't just plonk an age limit on things and say over such and such an age everything will be hunky-dory.

Fair enough, but you can plonk a law on the age to try protect kids (and anyone under 16 is a kid in my eyes) making the kinda mistakes, we as adults are equipped to deal with.

katex · 21-11-2006, 19:19

What has always bemused me about this question is that the 'social' laws are fighting the biological laws .. what I am trying to say is that a girl comes into puberty at average 13 and therefore can conceive and produce offspring .. a boy is at his high at 18 (sorry, fellas most of you here now on the decline

) This would be a perfect match according to nature.

If you have any sort of religious beliefs, this is what your God should be telling you .. is it not ? as he supposedly created you .. Ok .. yes, I am an atheist; but it is the most religious people that tend to argue against under age sex.

Just that the way we have evolved socially and over population, lack of housing, makes it rather difficult for 13 year old girls to bring up a child of her own, because we are at this age still providing education, fun things to do and labour laws, etc., Better all around, but still this battle going on. It does seem strange that a day before your 16th birthday it is considered wicked and illegal; the next day 'that's fine'.

Remember when Jerry Lee lewis married his 13 year old bride ? I felt strange about that one as only young myself.

Seems in some American states, the age of consent for women is 16 and boys 18 .. that is weird.

Anyway, we all know the difference between paedophiles and early relationships

Ianto.W. · 21-11-2006, 19:22

You may not agree with me, I may not agree with you, anonymous crap 'brownie' points giver but if you must castigate me put your name to it, you gutless cretin!

WillowTheWhisp · 21-11-2006, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinkerbelle

Fair enough, but you can plonk a law on the age to try protect kids (and anyone under 16 is a kid in my eyes) making the kinda mistakes, we as adults are equipped to deal with.

As the mother of a 15 year old girl I'd marmalise anyone who forced himself upon her and I do agree that we have to plonk an age somewhere but also know someone who married quite legally only a few months older than her. The idea that she will be legally old enough to marry in just over 6 months time is quite scary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

What has always bemused me about this question is that the 'social' laws are fighting the biological laws .. what I am trying to say is that a girl comes into puberty at average 13 and therefore can conceive and produce offspring .. a boy is at his high at 18 (sorry, fellas most of you here now on the decline

) This would be a perfect match according to nature.

If you have any sort of religious beliefs, this is what your God should be telling you .. is it not ? as he supposedly created you .. Ok .. yes, I am an atheist; but it is the most religious people that tend to argue against under age sex.

Just that the way we have evolved socially and over population, lack of housing, makes it rather difficult for 13 year old girls to bring up a child of her own, because we are at this age still providing education, fun things to do and labour laws, etc., Better all around, but still this battle going on.

A girl may be physically capable of having a baby at 13 but she isn't emotionally mature nor is her body really ready for a sexual relationship at that age despite the onset of puberty. Most 13 year old menstruating girls have still got plenty of developing to do. I seriously doubt that a 13 year old could manage a household of her own and bring up a baby without adult assistance even if she wasn't still supposed to be receivng her education.

Tinkerbelle · 21-11-2006, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

As the mother of a 15 year old girl I'd marmalise anyone who forced himself upon her and I do agree that we have to plonk an age somewhere but also know someone who married quite legally only a few months older than her. The idea that she will be legally old enough to marry in just over 6 months time is quite scary.

Totally agree, Willow. I've always thought the age should be raised to 18, but that should be across the board for everyone and everything. Very similar to accymels thinking, you can't give a child some adult decisions and remove others. 16 is old enough to have a child but not old enough to vote in a Government that best represents their own childs needs. Old enough to marry but to young to buy a drink at their own wedding reception.

katex · 21-11-2006, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

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A girl may be physically capable of having a baby at 13 but she isn't emotionally mature nor is her body really ready for a sexual relationship at that age despite the onset of puberty. Most 13 year old menstruating girls have still got plenty of developing to do. I seriously doubt that a 13 year old could manage a household of her own and bring up a baby without adult assistance even if she wasn't still supposed to be receivng her education.

Couldn't agree more Willow, was no argument here, just that it is only the way we have evolved as a species that we have not prepared them 'emotionally' in our day and age, but, in nature's eyes, they are quite capable. This is what we would call the split between humans and animals I suppose. However, still there is this war we are fighting between biology and sociology, and to take up Tinks point .. how do we really know when 'we' consider they are ready ? Different countries have varying attitudes, but only because it fits in with the way they are socially structured (or lack of it sometime)

WillowTheWhisp · 21-11-2006, 20:02

Yes it's madness when some things are legal and some aren't - like when a soldier could be sent to war to die for a government he wasn't old enough to vote for! It should be the one age across the board for everything.

Tinkerbelle · 21-11-2006, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

to take up Tinks point .. how do we really know when 'we' consider they are ready ? Different countries have varying attitudes, but only because it fits in with the way they are socially structured (or lack of it sometime)

Kate do you mean 'we' as parents or 'we' as a society?

As parents it's not for us to decide, the high rate of teenage pregnancy in this country goes to show they'll do it when they think ready. It's just our role as parents to talk to them, guide them and hope they make the right decisions for themselves.

As a society, I think it sets us apart from other, as you say, 'less structured' that we value our childrens right to a childhood.

Sparkologist · 21-11-2006, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

As the mother of a 15 year old girl I'd marmalise anyone who forced himself upon her...

And rightly so! But what if your daughter were a willing participant or the instigator?

I am not trying to wind you up, Willow. I am playing devil's advocate, for the sake of the debate.

katex · 21-11-2006, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinkerbelle

Kate do you mean 'we' as parents or 'we' as a society?

As parents it's not for us to decide, the high rate of teenage pregnancy in this country goes to show they'll do it when they think ready. It's just our role as parents to talk to them, guide them and hope they make the right decisions for themselves.

As a society, I think it sets us apart from other, as you say, 'less structured' that we value our childrens right to a childhood.

Hi Tinks .. well, we as a society I suppose, after all we voted in the candidates who make these laws for us.

Again, not arguing against trying to set a law to protect our 'children' (from what ? originally though). Yes, up to us absolutely to try and make them understand not in their best interests to get pregnant, etc., as does not now fit into the society as we know it now,particularly before 16 (is it any better after?). Just again the way we have evolved as a species and decided that a 13 year old is still a child .. but nature does not tell us this. Oh hek, getting meself in a tangle now, aint I?

This is why I think underage sex should be looked on a little more sympathetically, because nature has to catch up with our ever growing better conditions i.e living longer.

Perhaps in time evolution will take over and puberty will start much later.

Teenage pregnancy biologically is not a problem .. just socially.

WillowTheWhisp · 21-11-2006, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkologist

And rightly so! But what if your daughter were a willing participant or the instigator?

I am not trying to wind you up, Willow. I am playing devil's advocate, for the sake of the debate.

I hope my daughter has enough sense. She seems to have. She has criticised a friend of hers who 'got herself into trouble' as they say but if she was a willing participant or the instigator then that is an entirely different kettle of fish as I said earlier.

Oddly enough the pregnant girl's mother stopped her going to a youth group and from mixing with a bunch of kids who were watched over by an older lad because she didn't want her daughter getting into such a situation.