Unions flexing their muscles again - Page 5

garinda · 21-03-2010, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumped

Being a 16-year old in the 1950's was a totally different kettle of fish to what is happening today. Kids were brought up to respect their elders, unlike modern times when there is very little respect for anything and avararice rules the roost.

That's another wise lesson my parents taught me, besides not being forced into doing anything against your will, respect is earned. It's not an automatic right.

There are young people who deserve respect, because they're kind, honest, selfless, and there are older people who still haven't got the sense they were born with, for whom it's harder to make a show of respect.

garinda · 21-03-2010, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

I must point out that in the '50s it was necessary to be a Trade Union member - if you weren't then you didn't get a job.

Though this changed after 1964, because of the ruling after the Rookes vs. Barnard case.

Before that of course, if you were vehemently opposed to becoming a union member, in those halcyon days of full employment, you could have picked a line of work that didn't require union membership.

Stumped · 21-03-2010, 18:50

Union membership certainly didn't help the beleagered coal miners and steel workers!

Barrie Yates · 21-03-2010, 18:50

[quote=garinda;799208]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

I must point out that in the '50s it was necessary to be a Trade Union member - if you weren't then you didn't get a job. /quote]

Though this changed after 1964, because of the ruling after the Rookes vs. Barnard case.

Before that of course, if you were vehemently opposed to becoming a union member, in those halcyon days of full employment, you could have picked a line of work that didn't require union membership.

Not if you wanted a worthwhile trade, but by then I had taken the Queen's Shilling and was in Borneo defending Malaysia (including Singapore then), against Indonesia - the first of my Brush Fires. Lovely days.

garinda · 21-03-2010, 18:58

Butcher, baker, candlestick maker.

I believe quite a few managed quite well, earning a tasty crust, without joining any trade union.

DaveinGermany · 21-03-2010, 19:07

Never really had much to do with unions, but what I saw as I grew up seemed to be more about themselves (the Union Leaders) than the people they supposedly represented.

Back in the mists of time their intentions were quite right, the idea of looking after the little Fella, but as it became more a job than an honorary position & they reaped the benefits thereof, I believe something was lost, their fundamental reason for being slipped away.

I recall, the strikes of people like Binmen, Firemen & especially the Miners, in the end what was the net gain ? At the outset the public may have backed them but once it started intruding into Joe Publics personal life, any support rapidly vanished to be replaced by resentment. Who benefited ?

It wasn't the strikers as they ended up out of pocket & in some cases out of work with all the social implications that entails. The public certainly didn't, but the leaders managed well enough, always money for the management.

Modern unions tend to be self serving, they don't cater for their members just the boys & girls at the top, & when political parties have to give concessions to such entities it will be the people who suffer.

Mancie · 21-03-2010, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumped

Union membership certainly didn't help the beleagered coal miners and steel workers!

So the "belegered" coal miners and steel workers would have been better off if they had towed the line and not questioned any job cuts, pay cuts, worked 12 hours a day under conditions that meant you were dead before your kids?... I don't know how old you are Stumped but I know old tory "values" when I see them.. go back to living in your dream of the good old days when t'boss at t'mill would send round a loaf of bread if you were off sick for a month.

Stumped · 21-03-2010, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

So the "belegered" coal miners and steel workers would have been better off if they had towed the line and not questioned any job cuts, pay cuts, worked 12 hours a day under conditions that meant you were dead before your kids?... I don't know how old you are Stumped but I know old tory "values" when I see them.. go back to living in your dream of the good old days when t'boss at t'mill would send round a loaf of bread if you were off sick for a month.

Wondered where you'd got to, Mancie. I was born during WW2 in 1941. As to my political views? I no longer have any. I haven't voted in any election for some time as I don't see the point any more since Europe took over the purse strings and rendered Parliamment redundant. I believe the miners under Joe Gormley could have negotiated a better compromise than they achieved under the confrontational leadership of Scargill. If we still had working pits, then maybe we wouldn't be as beholden to the likes of France and Grermany for our gas and electricity! But therein lies another story.

cashman · 21-03-2010, 19:32

Some lucky sods made a fortune in overtime n some even bragged about it during the miners dispute, that would be our illustrious Police Force.

Mancie · 21-03-2010, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumped

Wondered where you'd got to, Mancie. I was born during WW2 in 1941. As to my political views? I no longer have any. I haven't voted in any election for some time as I don't see the point any more since Europe took over the purse strings and rendered Parliamment redundant. I believe the miners under Joe Gormley could have negotiated a better compromise than they achieved under the confrontational leadership of Scargill. If we still had working pits, then maybe we wouldn't be as beholden to the likes of France and Grermany for our gas and electricity! But therein lies another story.

But there was no negotiation offered to the miners.. it was take it or strike..to try to make a case that that strike lead to the selling off of the national gas or electric is rubbish .. the tory cabinet in there untold wisdom had decide to sell off any public owned industry to anyone..people forget the reality of the strike in '84.. and people are to easy with words when they say the public are against the strike by BA staff... BA staff are members of the public like you and me.

Barrie Yates · 21-03-2010, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Some lucky sods made a fortune in overtime n some even bragged about it during the miners dispute, that would be our illustrious Police Force.

So did the miners - I lived in a Notts village in 71/72 and we could buy coal from the miners who used to come into the village pub every Friday evening - from their very generous allowance of free coal - which they got even when on strike.

Stumped · 21-03-2010, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Some lucky sods made a fortune in overtime n some even bragged about it during the miners dispute, that would be our illustrious Police Force.

You are correct, Cashman. Neither side came out of the sad dispute bathed in glory, but to boast about the expenses earned by some was both wrong and demeaning. However, believe me, the confrontations at the various pit-heads provided the most frightening experiences of my entire life and involved several changes of underwear, which I am not ashamed to admit to. I am sure that the dispute could have been handled better, and I believe it was wrong of Mrs Thatcher to embroil the police in a battle that should never have been allowed to degerate into sduch a hostile situation, the repercussions of which still reverberate today.

cashman · 21-03-2010, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

So did the miners - I lived in a Notts village in 71/72 and we could buy coal from the miners who used to come into the village pub every Friday evening - from their very generous allowance of free coal - which they got even when on strike.

would they be striking miners or scabs Barrie? as notts had a surplus of those.

Stumped · 21-03-2010, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

But there was no negotiation offered to the miners.. it was take it or strike..to try to make a case that that strike lead to the selling off of the national gas or electric is rubbish .. the tory cabinet in there untold wisdom had decide to sell off any public owned industry to anyone..people forget the reality of the strike in '84.. and people are to easy with words when they say the public are against the strike by BA staff... BA staff are members of the public like you and me.

They also dissembled and sold the railways - and look at the mess that has landed us with. I grew up in the glorious days of steam which, I grant you were filthy, smoke and soot belching monsters, but boy: they were spectacular.

Stumped · 21-03-2010, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

But there was no negotiation offered to the miners.. it was take it or strike..to try to make a case that that strike lead to the selling off of the national gas or electric is rubbish .. the tory cabinet in there untold wisdom had decide to sell off any public owned industry to anyone..people forget the reality of the strike in '84.. and people are to easy with words when they say the public are against the strike by BA staff... BA staff are members of the public like you and me.

'Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate' was the phrase repeated again and again by Joe Gorley on the national news bulletins, but Arthur Scargill and Mick MacGhachie concluded that confrontation was the only option.