Unions flexing their muscles again - Page 6

Mancie · 21-03-2010, 20:04

The Notts miners did break the strike and let's not mess about.. the "leaders" of the Notts miners were duped by the then Thatcher government.. 80% of Notts miners were sacked within 3 years.

Stumped · 21-03-2010, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

The Notts miners did break the strike and let's not mess about.. the "leaders" of the Notts miners were duped by the then Thatcher government.. 80% of Notts miners were sacked within 3 years.

Didn't someone purport to set up an alternative union and attempt to liaise some sort of compromise with the coal board? which only served to aggravate the relationships between the various factions?

Mancie · 21-03-2010, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumped

'Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate' was the phrase repeated again and again by Joe Gorley on the national news bulletins, but Arthur Scargill and Mick MacGhachie concluded that confrontation was the only option.

There was never any offer of negotiation.. it was a take it or leave it .. the "take it" was a massive (over 50%) cut in the workforce followed by another cut of 25% over 3 years.. like I say if you have any respect for the bloke working next door you would strike.

Barrie Yates · 21-03-2010, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

would they be striking miners or scabs Barrie? as notts had a surplus of those.

Oh they were on strike OK and NUM members - the landlord's brother-in-law had a thriving business going, he was making more money on strike than when working

Mancie · 21-03-2010, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Oh they were on strike OK and NUM members - the landlord's brother-in-law had a thriving business going, he was making more money on strike than when working

From what I heard the police shipped up from London earned a few bob with expenses, hotel bills and overtime, some of them wore "we love scargill" tee shirts.
There is no defence for the wipe out of jobs and whole communities the then tory government inflicted on Britian.. and yet we still have those who will defend those actions.. pathetic!

Margaret Pilkington · 21-03-2010, 21:19

and after all the strikes....what is left of the mining industry? Precious little.........so what did the withdrawal of labour do to prevent the demise of the mining industry? Absolutely nothing.
As for the steel industry, well that has shrunk unbelievably too.
As I observed in a previous post, strikes do not benefit those who go on strike(they lose money) and the customers that the strikers are there to service find alternative places to get their goods.......so customers are lost......and the market is driven abroad, often with the result of a cheaper product.
The end result........a market in this country is lost to overseas providers.

cashman · 21-03-2010, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

and after all the strikes....what is left of the mining industry? Precious little.........so what did the withdrawal of labour do to prevent the demise of the mining industry? Absolutely nothing.

that is a sad fact n perfectly true margaret, but as that dispute was all about "Pit Closures" not pounds,shillings, ans pence, what would you suggest as an alternative fer those workers? "Bend down n let thatcher stuff em."

Margaret Pilkington · 21-03-2010, 21:58

Cashy, I'm not sure that it would have been any different whichever political party had been in power.
While I do remember the disputes,I can't really remember the political background.....politics seemed very boring then.
I think that the market for coal had shrunk and so if the pits had been allowed to continue working then they would slowly have died out from lack of business.
I remember when I was growing up everyone had coal fires, and the coal man was a regular visitor to every street.......but modern life meant that everyone wanted the sleek lines of a teak surround and the convenience of a gas fire........so coal was given the heave ho.
Ok, maybe the Electricity generating stations still used coal, but I am sure that I read somewhere at the time that the coal was being produced far more cheaply in Poland and it was being imported.
When your product becomes outmoded or too expensive, then the industry goes to the Wall.......cotton was a similar story.
Howard and Bulloughs exported the machinery to the far east and with it went the thousands of jobs that kept Lancashire in bread and butter.

There never has been a political will to support what are seen as 'lame duck' industries(well, not for very long anyway).

Mancie · 21-03-2010, 22:03

It's the same old story.. strikes make the unions public enemy.. but it's soon forgot that members of unions are not raving red flag commie's .. if you get pushed into a corner you can fight or give up.
everyone has regret for those who have lost holidays and such..but there don't seem to be much sympathy for those who are about to loose their livelihood because of job cuts.

cashman · 21-03-2010, 22:09

pits were closed with decades of coal left in em, coal was started being imported from poland soley to crush the miners, whilst supplys to the electric board. Scargill whilst handling the dispute very badly, was called a liar by thatcher n the media, fer saying how many pits would close, They actually closed many more than he predicted, so in that sense he was a liar.

this was proved a few years after, yet the same media that crucified him, never said then he was right. thats the true story of this rotten society.

Margaret Pilkington · 21-03-2010, 22:10

I have every sympathy for those who lose their jobs because of job cuts, but sometimes the militancy of unions does them no favours........and strike action is an counter productive if it makes a business go under.......the workers have still lost their jobs, but because they have withdrawn their labour.
Losing your job because you are no longer competitive in a cut throat market is no different to losing your job because the company you worked for has lost its clients due to your withdrawal of labour.......you still have no employment....no way to pay the mortgage....put food on the table.

cashman · 21-03-2010, 22:16

fine if it was not competative, but the pits still were, was all about crushing the union margaret nowt else.

Margaret Pilkington · 21-03-2010, 22:20

Yes Cashy, I suppose that is true....but all their strikes didn't solve anything or change the course of what would happen to the industry......it just lost the miners and their families money(and of course the other workers who dipped into their own pockets to support the miners).

cashman · 21-03-2010, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Yes Cashy, I suppose that is true....but all their strikes didn't solve anything or change the course of what would happen to the industry......it just lost the miners and their families money(and of course the other workers who dipped into their own pockets to support the miners).

the polish coal was actually cheaper, but was crap,poor quality n caused problems, it cost me personally a fair bit, but i do not begrudge 1 penny of it.

Stumped · 21-03-2010, 22:32

It's difficult to take an objective view over any strike situation. There are clearly rights and wrongs on both sides of any given dispute. But essentially it is the consumer who suffers, either through lack of service or personal loss. Yes, unions plainly do have a part to play in negotiating what they see as best for their members, but this should never be at an increased cost to those who are often left stranded on the fringe of things when problems become insurmountable through the intransigence of the parties involved.