US gun laws

Mark2009 · 06-04-2018, 14:18

There seems to be a lot of discussion at present in the US about banning what are termed "assault rifles". They appear to be something that belongs in the armed forces but I know next to nothing about guns. If you get shot in the head with an assault rifle are you more likely to be seriously injured than if it is with a pistol? There are other aspects being discussed like all guns should be banned, but this would be unlikely to have a great effect as here in the UK I imagine many of the shootings reported on the news are with hand guns which I understand to be illegal.
Mark

RainbowSix · 06-04-2018, 15:58

As far as I know one of the differences is that assault rifles carry a higher magazine capacity so can kill more, more quickly.

DaveinGermany · 06-04-2018, 20:45

Assault rifles are military grade weapons which can fire on full automatic, one trigger pull & the magazine 20/30 rounds can be emptied in a single burst. Semi automatic weapons recock "automatically" after every shot & require the shooter to pull the trigger to fire the next round.

As you stated Mark, it's immaterial if you're shot with one weapon or another the damage will be done regardless. But as R6 pointed out, by banning automatics the rate at which victims are shot & injured will be slowed but not prevented.

Barrie Yates · 07-04-2018, 16:10

DinG, remember the SLR - single shot semi-automatic, but a little bit of work on the Sear could produce a fully automatic weapon. Actually got to use on on the range at Coltishall, much more accurate than the Sterling. :-)

Retlaw · 07-04-2018, 17:39

This country of ours has the stricktest gun laws on the planet, that tony blur got many many votes on his promise to ban all pistols after the Dunblane do, yet that bloke had no legal reason to have a fire arms certificate, no club in the area would have him as a member, yet his certificate was renewed, and that person has never been held to account, Hamilton knew exactly what he was doing that day, and he achieved it, a complete ban, just because gun clubs wouldn't have him. And blurs bann solved nothing, the police always knew that there were more unregistered fire arms than legal ones.
As for any gun laws in Amarica resulting in a reduction of fire arms, dream on, there are more guns than people in America, and you can even get a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
If I lived there I could even buy a Vickers machine gun.
One thing that no USA politician or political group would dare trying to do is bann fire arms, the gun lobby keep quoting the right to bear arms. My answer to them, okay but the only arms you will get to bear, are those that were in being when that clause in the constitution was written.
And I could write even more on Swiss gun laws, which are an eye opener for some. Education can solve many problems

Margaret Pilkington · 07-04-2018, 18:24

Retlaw, your last sentence is the crux of the matter.
'Education can solve many problems'
However the biggest problem is that you cannot put sense where there is none....and to be educated, you have to want to be educated...you have to want to instigate change.
Alas, in the US there is no desire to change, or to be educated.
I watched a TV program where a couple were taking their five year old child to choose her first gun...and later it showed them on a firing range with her.
Please tell me if you can....where is the sense in that?

Those who have malign intent will always be able to get weapons...an illegal weapon is just as deadly as a legal one.

I really do despair of the way this world is going.

DaveinGermany · 07-04-2018, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

DinG, remember the SLR - single shot semi-automatic,

Most serpently do Bazza, the good old 7.62mm Bundook. With the insertion of a piece of matchstick behind the firing pin you had an uncontrolled single pull 20 round fully auto firestick!

Then they went & traded that marvellous Musket in for the plazzy space cadet L85 5.56mm SA 80.

And as to the Americans 2nd amendment, what most of the folk tend to forget/ignore when stating their "Right to bear arms!" is the preceding caveat.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Retlaw · 07-04-2018, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Retlaw, your last sentence is the crux of the matter.
'Education can solve many problems'
However the biggest problem is that you cannot put sense where there is none....and to be educated, you have to want to be educated...you have to want to instigate change.
Alas, in the US there is no desire to change, or to be educated.
I watched a TV program where a couple were taking their five year old child to choose her first gun...and later it showed them on a firing range with her.
Please tell me if you can....where is the sense in that?

Those who have malign intent will always be able to get weapons...an illegal weapon is just as deadly as a legal one.

I really do despair of the way this world is going.

I agree with most of what you say Margaret, there are some you can thump all day long, and they won't see sense, they shud be either sterilised or put down, as for education, that really starts on the mothers knee, whilst still in the nappy stage.
My only grandson is an example, he devours knowledge like a starving dog.

Mark2009 · 08-04-2018, 12:45

Each time there is a mass shooting, be it Columbine in 1999 (15 dead,) Las Vegas in 2017 (59 dead) or anywhere before in between or since, I think surely this time they will begin to value their families more than their guns but it doesn't happen. the second amendment to the Constitution could surely be "amended" again.
Mark

Margaret Pilkington · 08-04-2018, 13:26

Yes, I think you are right about that.
When the second amendment was formulated the US was a far different country...and as Retlaw observed, the guns were rudimentary...and things have to be looked at from a modern angle.
The problem is the NRA will not compromise, and it seems that it does not matter how many young lives are lost, they do not hear any of the logical and reasoned arguments.

Who knows what potential has been lost in these young lives...and I do not get why there has not been a huge uprising of the people to change things.

Retlaw · 08-04-2018, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Yes, I think you are right about that.
When the second amendment was formulated the US was a far different country...and as Retlaw observed, the guns were rudimentary...and things have to be looked at from a modern angle.
The problem is the NRA will not compromise, and it seems that it does not matter how many young lives are lost, they do not hear any of the logical and reasoned arguments.

Who knows what potential has been lost in these young lives...and I do not get why there has not been a huge uprising of the people to change things.

Your right once again Margaret, the NRA has too much power, and as D. in G pointed out the Constitution shows a Well Armed Militia, they already have that in the form of the National Guard, so why does every Tom, Dick, & Harry teapot, need the fire power thats too readily available, Some may need a pistol for pesonal protection, and from what we get to know in the news some do need it, but every hooray Henry with military grade weapons, Hoody Blell, theres a difference between a gentle fart, and ripping the seat off your pants. ---- And as father used to say, you can't educate pork even if it is Boiled Ham.

Mark2009 · 09-04-2018, 09:58

Even if the unlikely was to happen and the gun laws are changed in some way, I think there is also a problem with the culture of guns where it often seems that the way to resolve an issue is by shooting somebody. Although a further thought is that in the mass shootings, the shooter more often than not doesn't know the people he kills and has no issue with them.
Mark

Margaret Pilkington · 09-04-2018, 14:59

In school shootings the perpetrator seems to feel that they are victims of some perceived slight, either by teachers or their peers.
The whole thing is due to the way society has progressed(?). It is a societal problem...a way to gain notoriety...fame...but of the wrong kind.

People believe they have rights...and they want to cling onto these in spite of the fact that they may be detrimental to the community as a whole....and those who squeal that their rights are being compromised often do not accept the responsibility that goes with rights.

When young people are mown down in senseless killing sprees, I wonder if one of those who were killed would be the discoverer of a cure for cancer, or whether one of them may have made a vast contribution to peace in the world, or whether they might have come up with the means to feed those who are currently starving in countries across the world.

I know that this wondering is pointless, because it is a question that can never be answered.

How painful it must be to see your child...the centre of your universe,cut down before they have had a chance of any kind of life.

I wonder if those in the hierarchy of the NRA ever think about these things....contemplate what the loss of a child means and how it affects the whole of your life.

And all of these may seem trite and cliched, but that is my response to the situation with guns.
Guns are the only answer to a gun....so if all guns were removed and only the police allowed to carry them...and then only in certain situations....would it make a difference?
I don't know if it would...those who have money will always be able to buy what they want....and legal or illegal...a gun still robs the community of life.

Retlaw · 09-04-2018, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

In school shootings the perpetrator seems to feel that they are victims of some perceived slight, either by teachers or their peers.
The whole thing is due to the way society has progressed(?). It is a societal problem...a way to gain notoriety...fame...but of the wrong kind.

People believe they have rights...and they want to cling onto these in spite of the fact that they may be detrimental to the community as a whole....and those who squeal that their rights are being compromised often do not accept the responsibility that goes with rights.

When young people are mown down in senseless killing sprees, I wonder if one of those who were killed would be the discoverer of a cure for cancer, or whether one of them may have made a vast contribution to peace in the world, or whether they might have come up with the means to feed those who are currently starving in countries across the world.

I know that this wondering is pointless, because it is a question that can never be answered.

How painful it must be to see your child...the centre of your universe,cut down before they have had a chance of any kind of life.

I wonder if those in the hierarchy of the NRA ever think about these things....contemplate what the loss of a child means and how it affects the whole of your life.

And all of these may seem trite and cliched, but that is my response to the situation with guns.
Guns are the only answer to a gun....so if all guns were removed and only the police allowed to carry them...and then only in certain situations....would it make a difference?
I don't know if it would...those who have money will always be able to buy what they want....and legal or illegal...a gun still robs the community of life.

Margaret, I can't argue with you, your reasoning is fautless, but Septic land is a whole world apart from how we live, some of them Yanks live in remote areas, there nearest neighbour could be a couple of miles away, and like every where else you always get some, who think your possesions are theirs, in situations like that a gun of any description is an essential tool to staying alive.
I think it would be nigh on impossible to rid america of guns, there are literally millions of them.
This country once had many fire arms, and we never had many problems with ownership until late 1918, the conflict at Archangel, where British, Canadian & the yanks were involved, hundreds of tons of arnaments were stored there for what was known as the white Russians, and the Bolshies were after it. The end result put the fear of god in our goverment of the time, so things started being tight'nd up, then during the 1930's things started happening on the continent which cause more worry, so the 1937 fire arms act came into being.
Over the intervening years, the Irish problem, and other events caused tigther and tighter gun controls, and the police blamed legitimate gun owners for every thing they could think of, and that we supplied criminals, now we are no more, and still it hasn't stopped gun crime.
Back when I was a competetive shooter, if you broke any of the rules in the fire arms act, of which there were dozens, many trivial ones as well, you lost your permit for life, yet commit a crime with a car, or any motorise vechicle, for which you recieve a punishment, or even kill some one, and before long you are driving again, and cars kill people every day, day in day out. Guns don't kill people, people kill people and they'l do it with what ever they can get their hands on, from knitting needles to felling axes. But what the heck blame the gun owners.

Margaret Pilkington · 09-04-2018, 20:14

Yes you are right Retlaw...people DO kill people,(it seems that life is a cheap commodity)and they use more means than guns...nevertheless, it makes no sense to be giving just anyone a licence to hold a firearm.
All that said, it is NOT the licenced guns that are the problem in this country...I think that currently knife crime is far and away the greater problem... with thugs and gangs having a point scoring system for their violent activity...and in the main these gangs seem to be of Afro Caribbean heritage.
So what makes them act in such a way?
Maybe we should round up these young men(and girls) and put them into a situation where they can practice their violence in a real conflict situation.
It is obvious that they think that violence is a way of life...a way to make them feel like they have power....and THAT is what it all boils down to. POWER...they want to feel that they have the power over someone who is weaker and more vulnerable.
Just how sad is that??
I say it more and more...I despair of the way the world is going.