US teen kills 8 people to be famous.... - Page 4

Eric · 11-12-2007, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I wondered about that, not sure what constitutes a massacre. You're probably right though. Wilful murder of large numbers of unarmed people.

This is a massacre: Ã‰cole Polytechnique massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gareth · 12-12-2007, 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Considering the weather in California, and the fact that people can walk around almost naked where could you conceal a gun on your person other than shoving it where the sun don't shine

Its bloody freezing in San Diego right now. Its like 60f - it even had the temerity to rain yesterday. Anyway, as a 17 year Californian born in Accrington, I now strongly believe in the rights for the common man to own and carry a gun. When I first came, I believed that society had too many guns in it. I can't see the need for owning an AK47 at home, and if you do you should have to keep it locked up in a safe for the day you want to go fight the Governement (that bit I believe is an antiquated argument). I believe that the second amendment ----

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

meant "the people" as a whole, as opposed to "the people" as individuals. I believe the Supreme Court is going to pass a ruling on that in the near future. That being said, society here has progressed to such levels of violence that I keep a 9mm in my house with a trigger lock so that no-one that shouldn't be using it can. Break into my house when I am home at your peril. People should be allowed to defend themselves as banning guns will have the same result as banning cocaine, and marijuana, and heroin. Law abiding folk won't have the protection that they need when someone on heroin breaks into their house, with a stolen gun and will do anything for their next fix. If that guy breaks into my house, he won't get his next fix.

Eric · 12-12-2007, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

Its bloody freezing in San Diego right now. Its like 60f - it even had the temerity to rain yesterday. Anyway, as a 17 year Californian born in Accrington, I now strongly believe in the rights for the common man to own and carry a gun. When I first came, I believed that society had too many guns in it. I can't see the need for owning an AK47 at home, and if you do you should have to keep it locked up in a safe for the day you want to go fight the Governement (that bit I believe is an antiquated argument). I believe that the second amendment ----

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

meant "the people" as a whole, as opposed to "the people" as individuals. I believe the Supreme Court is going to pass a ruling on that in the near future. That being said, society here has progressed to such levels of violence that I keep a 9mm in my house with a trigger lock so that no-one that shouldn't be using it can. Break into my house when I am home at your peril. People should be allowed to defend themselves as banning guns will have the same result as banning cocaine, and marijuana, and heroin. Law abiding folk won't have the protection that they need when someone on heroin breaks into their house, with a stolen gun and will do anything for their next fix. If that guy breaks into my house, he won't get his next fix.

I think that you should be questioning why your society has reached "such levels of violence". I live on the same continent as you do. And I have never felt the need to arm myself against my fellow citizens.

Stanaccy · 12-12-2007, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

I think the same argument could also be used for drunk driving which kills and maims thousands every year ..... I suppose you agree with the premise that it would be a good idea to ban both the production and sale of alcohol and use of motor vehicles since when combined they kill and maim thousands every year . ergo ....No alcohol + No motor cars = no deaths and maiming .
Maybe the answer is to have every cars ignition system hooked up to a breathalyser, great idea , until drunken Mum or Dad get little Wayne or Shane to start the car for them and put them in the backseat while they drive on to the next pub . Maybe its a good idea that no place selling alcohol should have a car-park , an obvious first step to cut down on drunk driving

No Alcohol + No Cars = no drunk driving deaths

The main flaw in your argument is that cars are produced primarily for transport, alcohol was produced (in Europe anyway) as a way of preventing infection through dodgy water. Since then it has been used as a legal drug for pleasure.

A gun's only function is to kill.

Stanaccy · 12-12-2007, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

Its bloody freezing in San Diego right now. Its like 60f - it even had the temerity to rain yesterday. Anyway, as a 17 year Californian born in Accrington, I now strongly believe in the rights for the common man to own and carry a gun. When I first came, I believed that society had too many guns in it. I can't see the need for owning an AK47 at home, and if you do you should have to keep it locked up in a safe for the day you want to go fight the Governement (that bit I believe is an antiquated argument). I believe that the second amendment ----

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

meant "the people" as a whole, as opposed to "the people" as individuals. I believe the Supreme Court is going to pass a ruling on that in the near future. That being said, society here has progressed to such levels of violence that I keep a 9mm in my house with a trigger lock so that no-one that shouldn't be using it can. Break into my house when I am home at your peril. People should be allowed to defend themselves as banning guns will have the same result as banning cocaine, and marijuana, and heroin. Law abiding folk won't have the protection that they need when someone on heroin breaks into their house, with a stolen gun and will do anything for their next fix. If that guy breaks into my house, he won't get his next fix.

So hundreds of innocents die because nutters can get guns so you can keep a gun IN CASE someone attacks you?

Yes the strength of your argument is overwhelming

.

Stanaccy · 12-12-2007, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Have we ever had massacres here?

Dunblane & Hungerford to name 2 not including Ulster.

Stanaccy · 12-12-2007, 21:57

Oh and thanks for the negative Karma. "Bite Me" so mature.

Eric · 12-12-2007, 22:14

If you live in a society where you feel the need to arm yourself for protection, you are facing problems much more serious than the question of your right to bear arms. Ah well, when you are up to your ass in alligators, it is hard to remind yourself you were sent to drain the swamp.

Gareth · 12-12-2007, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanaccy

So hundreds of innocents die because nutters can get guns so you can keep a gun IN CASE someone attacks you?

Yes the strength of your argument is overwhelming

.

I keep my gun to protect myself from the nutters. The nutters generally have acquired guns illegally. Legislation to control who owns a gun is extensive. Except nutters and criminals simply don't bother.

I live 2 miles from Mexico. On the offramp from my freeway there is the follwing sign.

http://www.spraguephoto.com/stock/im...co/05mx066.jpg

I wouldn't cross the border right now for fear of being shot. As violent a place as the US is, Mexico, and particularly the border region including Tijuana, really is the wild west. The drug lords run the place, and pandemic lawlessness with murders, kidnappings and armed robbery becoming a daily occurance - and thats by the Police. My wife is from Mexico and we used to love to cross the border for dinner and enjoying the nightlife. Never again.

Banning guns isn't the answer. Eric lives in a significantly less violent place, but your argument about "living on the same continent, holds as much water as trying to compare Accrington with Ankara - on the same continent - and completely different.

That being said, I don't like the gun culture. Banning them simply leaves them in the hands of criminals. Hundreds of innocents will still die whether I can have my gun or not. I just want to make sure that when it comes around to my time (I have had a gun in the back of my head in 1995 in a robbery - that changed my opinion a lot) I have a fighting chance. I would love to change the culture, but that's not going to happen in my lifetime. And at the end of the day, I love San Diego, its now 80F and sunny. That makes life a lot easier to deal with. I haven't had to use a gun in 10 years, and I hope I never have to. And Im nuts enough to come to Accrington on Monday for 3 weeks for Christmas.

Eric · 12-12-2007, 23:37

Accrington and Ankara is a nice alliteration ... but I live only 10 klicks from New York State ... Buffalo is only a short drive away. And Canadians own large numbers of guns, but the only creatures who oppose this are deer, ducks et al. We have nutters of our own .... Robert Pickton has just been convicted of six counts of murdering hookers in Vancouver and there are still at least 20 charges pending. It is just that we rely on the police and the law to protect us. Plus the fact that we are by law prohibited from owning hand guns and assault rifles, which I don't think is a bad thing.

That said, I sincerely hope that you enjoy your Christmas back home. 80 degrees and sunny, eh. We have the sun, but tonight we will be down to -20 celsius. Maybe it's that fact that keeps the nutters at home.