Vandals - Page 3

Acrylic-bob · 17-07-2005, 10:34

Before we all get carried away with altruistic enthusiasm, has anyone considered the message that this might be sending to the arse-wipes who committed the vandalism in the first place? Namely; that it is not necessary to worry about the damage we cause because the adults will always club together to clear up after us.

Would our energies not be better expended in attempting to trace the culprits and rubbing their noses in the damage they have caused, the same way that one would house-train a pet. Because it seems to me that this is exactly the sort of socialisation training that they are lacking.

I am sick of hearing people bleating on and on about how hard done by the little sh*ts are and how there is nothing for the poor little bored dears to do. I am equally sick of hearing that the only solution to teenage misbehaviour is to throw ever increasing amounts of public money at the problem.

It is not as though the Police are not aware of whom the likely culprits are. I should like to see the Police take a damn sight more vigorous and pro-active approach to this problem. If they were prepared to make a few more house calls to lay down the law and empathise a bit less, I guarantee that you would see the problem much reduced, if not all but eliminated. They perhaps would not catch as many speeding motorists but, I think that we would all sleep a lot easier.

fireman · 17-07-2005, 11:39

I must agree in principle Bob, but even if we did find the "little sh--s we would be the ones in trouble, even if rubbing their noses is all we did. The police, I know do not seem to take an interest in this type of thing, but what do we do ,allow everything to lye in ruins so they can wallow in the results of their work., Or get on with sorting it out and proving to them that we care about the kids who use the facilities, and not about the idiots that choose to wreck things.

Gayle · 17-07-2005, 11:42

So are you suggesting that nothing is done, that an area that was once nice is now left as a rotting reminder of how some people do not care about other people? Are you suggesting that when some thugs graffittied on my wall I should have just left it and allowed every other idiot to use my wall as a drawing board? That too gives them the wrong impression that no one cares about things. It is only by rebuilding that we can show defiance and strength and pride.

I agree wholeheartedly that vandals should be caught but that is a whole different issue to whether we should return the area to its former glory or not.

Acrylic-bob · 17-07-2005, 12:29

Now now, I'm not saying don't repair the damage.

What I am trying to get at is that there has to be another solution to this. We are all intelligent, responsible adults. Surely there must be some way that we can put our collective heads together and beat a couple of dozen snotty-nosed kids at their own game, without getting on the wrong side of the law and without requiring the injection of vast tranches of taxpayers money.

I don't know what the solution to the problem is, I wish I did. But I do know that attempting to appease tyrants, thugs and bullies has never worked. Indeed the original Vandals viewed all attempts to placate them as weakness and earned the placaters nothing but scorn, rape and pillage. Stoical endurance doesn't work either, nor does ignoring the problem and hoping that it will go away or hoping that someone else will step in and solve the problem for us.

Acrylic-bob · 17-07-2005, 13:47

Thinking aloud - sort of - it strikes me that things were different before the the 60's because there was more of a sense of social cohesiveness; everyone in an area knew each other often because they worked in the same location and family members often lived close by. Maintaining a sense of Community was a lot easier then.

Now that families are often scattered far and wide and large numbers of people no longer work in one location it is that much more difficult. One of the things that ensured that your kids stayed on the straight and narrow was because if they strayed you knew that everyone at work would know about it and you would be the object of a great deal of gossip and significant looks or even worse if the offence was serious.

People are easier to control as a herd because they tend to police themselves. This perhaps comes close to the nub of what is lacking.

But in a fragmented and fragmenting society how do you foster this fading sense of Community, of belonging, of shared ownership and shared responsibility?

OK, what follows is one idea that I realise is so impractical that it would never work, it would depend on everyone gathering together and agreeing for one thing, which is never going to happen. But then again, similar things have worked in other places.

The Friends of Rhyddings Park, and every other park in the borough, are a good starting place. It is composed of people who care enough about a particular location to give up some of their time for the good of everyone and who are determined to put some energy and time into building rather than destroying, maintaining rather than ignoring.

What if we took that idea and applied it to other aspects of our communities?

If enough concerned residents could be found who were prepared to give up one evening a week it would not take much organisation to liase with the Police and HBC and form teams to patrol the streets and play areas just keep an eye on what is going on in the evenings and at weekends. Sort of like an unpaid, voluntary community warden scheme.

Perhaps they could also take our lovely councillors out with them. It should then follow that as the children of the locality get to know their wardens there would then be the opportunity for play, discussion, engagement and a degree of supervision which could prevent many situations developing into problems. I am sure that local business would be only too happy to contribute to any running costs that there might be.

Of course such a situation would be open to abuse. Any system is open to abuse. But one would hope that through liaison with the Police it would be minimalised if not entirely eliminated.

I realise that this also sounds a bit like I am advocating an alternative Police force, but what alternative is there when the police seem to find it much more entertaining to rush hither and thither in their cars with the go faster stripes and flashing lights and sirens that go woo-woo chasing speeding motorists ?

Lampman · 17-07-2005, 14:27

Good idea Ab,but have you ever had to deal with some of the aforementioned Little Sh***.
I have and I can tell you some of them are beyond help,only interested in the next purchase of drugs/alcohol and these are the younger ones.
The only answer I can think of is to name them when found and then at least we know who is who.
Of course then we will have Solicitors,Youth workers and Social Services on our backs,making us feel like criminals.

Doug · 17-07-2005, 14:58

I applaud your stance Bob and I have little doubt that you are right in what you have alluded too in respect of closer self policing communities of the past. However, we have little chance of reclaiming our communities when those who could make a difference dig there heads in the sand and chose to do nothing. Again the community itself is split to begin with between race, culture, religion and indifference. The Police themselves would like nothing better than the community to police itself, but within the law. HBC? I am not sure of; it would appear according to the members of this site that those elected to serve the borough are without foresight, lack the benefit of hindsight and are the champions of indifference, are they, or is it us. We should make a stand and demonstrate that as a community “web based on this occasion” we are not prepared to let local children down by giving way to thugs and vandals. Our efforts and our money will achieve this and when it’s done we will have to depend on the local community, the children of the school and your elected councillors to ensure that the Garden is watched over and protected. We should lead by example and demonstrate what can be achieved so that others are encouraged to join in.

Acrylic-bob · 17-07-2005, 15:08

True, but these are just ideas. Another one which I think I may have mentioned before is to provide every class in the borough with a pair of Grandparents; Senior citizens who would come in for a couple of hours a day to help the teacher and take part in lessons. Who would be available to talk with and with whom the children could begin to identify. It would also help with children who are not properly socialised when they begin school. Our elderly have a lifetime of skills and experience to impart. It seems such a pity that it goes unused.

It would also help the retired too, by giving them the sense that they are still needed and have something of worth to contribute.

Another idea is designating a public area of the borough as the responsibility of the local school and involving the children of that school in its funding and maintenance, to give them a sense of ownership, responsibility and pride.

If we can have wristbands for recycling why can we not have them for environmental protection and conservation, for being careful not to litter, for being polite, for being aware of the borough and how it might be improved.

While we are at it, why not institute a junior citizens version of HBC to shadow the real HBC and throw the problem of Vandalism and antisocial behaviour at them and see what solutions they come up with.

mez · 17-07-2005, 17:42

i must admit i would like to see the "vandals" caught, but i would also like to see them punished, i would love to be stood there watching them repair the damage they have caused, & may i add if money has to be used ........they must use their own , if they have none ............ their parents must pay it.