War veterans

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by blazey

I dont think they deserve special treatment. Its just their chosen career at the end of the day to do something for the country.
Bin men and teachers do things for the country and they dont get any particularly special treatment.

This current 'war' isnt a proper war anyway as theyre only in Iraq to help the people there arent they, not fight against them all. Saying that I dont quite know anything about the thing in Afghanistan.

As far as I'm aware though there isn't an official declaration of war,troops are just there to help the countries regain full power and basically fight against the violent people there who I suppose are a bit like revolutionists arent they?

Many people do things for the country and don't get particular recognition so I don't think there is a particular need. If we were in an actual war right now and people were being forced into joining and volunteering then those returning deserve recognition.

I'd say right now though the troops aren't providing much for are own country but more in the countries theyre actually in so if anything, they deserve rewarding over there.

The more I read your posts Blazy the more I wonder what planet your on.

When I was your age I was serving in the Army on active service in Malaya.
The bullets were real - I am not being rude but take your attitude out on other subjects.....not this one

[piltymon]

I am actually interested in any and all countries and everyones views. The original post wasn't meant to be country specific.

[blazey]

Yeh the bullets may have been real but what difference does that make exactly?

You got shot at and no doubt you shot back. You kill and they killed.
Doesnt necessarily mean they deserve any specific recognition for it?

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by blazey

I dont think they deserve special treatment. Its just their chosen career at the end of the day to do something for the country.
Bin men and teachers do things for the country and they dont get any particularly special treatment.

I don't wish to belittle binmen and teachers (in fact, I was a binman myself 37 years ago with Accy Corporation), but I think our brave servicemen and women deserve a little more respect than that.

The fact is, they risk their lives everyday in the service of this country. I don't agree with the current war in Iraq, but they can't pick and choose the wars they fight in. They are there to defend our country, with their lives if necessary, and as, such, they deserve to be held in the very highest regard.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

I don't wish to belittle binmen and teachers (in fact, I was a binman myself 37 years ago with Accy Corporation), but I think our brave servicemen and women deserve a little more respect than that.

The fact is, they risk their lives everyday in the service of this country. I don't agree with the current war in Iraq, but they can't pick and choose the wars they fight in. They are there to defend our country, with their lives if necessary, and as, such, they deserve to be held in the very highest regard.

I wasn't saying they shouldnt be given respect, I said I think the honour of the job is enough for them anyway.

Bin men have a dangerous job and these days teachers have a dangerous job aswell.
The services right now arent doing something direct for our country, theyre helping another who dont have their own decent services. Hence my point that the reward should be from the country theyre helping and the respect off us.

If people perhaps stop trying to pick fault with what i'm saying they'll read it properly and understand the intention of what im saying.

The question was for opinions on rewards and I gave it, I didnt say the army was not worth rewarding at all.

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by blazey

I dont think they deserve special treatment. Its just their chosen career at the end of the day to do something for the country.
Bin men and teachers do things for the country and they dont get any particularly special treatment.

The original post was about war veterans. Well done for turning it in to a student union debate on the current war/fight/peace march in Iraq.

Millions have died serving this country and they definately did not 'choose' it as a career.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by blazey

If people perhaps stop trying to pick fault with what i'm saying they'll read it properly and understand the intention of what im saying.

Strange, I thought I was entering into a reasoned debate with you. Are you going to start saying that everyone who disagrees with you is "picking fault"?

[accymel]

Gee Blazey - what is it like to be young without experience of real life other than the student lifestyle & your attitude is of lack of any comprehension of anything in life, your attitude is arrogant & ignorant. My grandfather god less him would of gladly given you a few 'home truths' about the effects of war - fighting for OUR freedom today way back in WW2!!

[steeljack]

the US ended conscription /national service/the draft soon after the end of the conflict in Vietnam , since then it has been an all volunteer military ie all the US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan are like the British forces, all volunteer, although....Some folks think that they have been drafted/conscripted since they are members of various national guard units ,similar to to the UK home guard during WW2 [ dads army units to be used for home defense in case of foriegn attack] and they never thought they would be mobilized for overseas duty.
As for the Vietnam Vets recieving a bad reception on returning back to the US , I think this is more an urban myth than anything , I know and have worked with plenty of guys who were over there and never has anyone of them said they were given a bad reception on returning home .
I agree with what Jambutty said in an earlier post about the treatment of returning British service personnel , its allways been the case of ,okay the wars is over , thanks , now ****** off ........(read the Rudyard Kipling poem Tommy )
Tommy
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o'beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins,'' when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

Another difference between the UK and US forces is that the US after the end of WW2 has allways tried to bring its dead home for burial , none of the stiff upper lip, laying in a foriegn field stuff , infact last week some remains from the Korean conflict were returned stateside and recieved full military funerals, as recently as the Falklands war the British war dead were still being buried in battlefield gravesites and not returned to the UK.

[blazey]

I gave my opinion of the past wars and the current wars.

I said that those fighting in past wars deserve their recognition as many where pushed into it.
The current 'war' that isnt an official war doesnt NEED rewarding, at least of british troops, because they are choosing to help another country and fight the problems there. therefore those countries should repay them with medals or whatever and we should just honour them and respect them for helping somewhere else.

Just because I have an opinion on the current war doesnt make it something on student unions talk about, Im not even interested in the student union.

And so far people have only criticised what I've said. Where is the need for debate in this topic? I havent even said anything controversial

[Tin Monkey]

Originally Posted by steeljack

Another difference between the UK and US forces is that the US after the end of WW2 has allways tried to bring its dead home for burial , none of the stiff upper lip, laying in a foriegn field stuff , infact last week some remains from the Korean conflict were returned stateside and recieved full military funerals, as recently as the Falklands war the British war dead were still being buried in battlefield gravesites and not returned to the UK.

And your point is what?

[Margaret Pilkington]

My dad was injured on the beaches of Dunkirk and spent many years trying to regain his health....and as a family we struggled to make ends meet.
In his latter years again he turned to the benefits system for a helping hand to get a pair of glasses......none was given because my mother earned 50 pence more than was permitted at the time.......so if we are talking of past wars and a home fit for heroes.....then you are having a laugh.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by accymel

Gee Blazey - what is it like to be young without experience of real life other than the student lifestyle & your attitude is of lack of any comprehension of anything in life, your attitude is arrogant & ignorant. My grandfather god less him would of gladly given you a few 'home truths' about the effects of war - fighting for OUR freedom today way back in WW2!!

I didnt even say I didnt think veterans of past wars didnt deserve recognition.

I study history and I know enough about what happened in the bloody war to think they deserve recognition but I dont think they need any extra material reward as the majority would say the honour of fighting in the war is enough.

Even if we had ever lost a war, who's to say a foreign leadership would be a bad thing. The queens not british and she rules quite well.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

My dad was injured on the beaches of Dunkirk and spent many years trying to regain his health....and as a family we struggled to make ends meet.
In his latter years again he turned to the benefits system for a helping hand to get a pair of glasses......none was given because my mother earned 50 pence more than was permitted at the time.......so if we are talking of
past wars and a home fit for heroes.....then you are having a laugh.

The honour is enough, there is no need for medals and certificates.

I didnt realise we were discussing the benefit system.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by blazey

I said that those fighting in past wars deserve their recognition as many where pushed into it.

Would you then differentiate between those who served in past wars, and the present war?

Should the war dead, and those returning, be afforded any less compassion?