War veterans

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by piltymon

Could we have a topic about war veterans please? I'm interested in what the general public think they deserve upon returning from war. All wars are of interest from the World wars to Vietnam, The Gulf war and The Argentinian war. Should we treat them any better than anyone else and, should we treat them even better after a particularly bloody war?

All men and women who volunteered or were conscripted into the armed forces should be rewarded for their courage with a decent armed forces pension whether or not they got involved in an actual armed conflict. You only got a pension if you served a minimum of 21 years.

Those who come back home mentally or physically disabled should receive a full disability pension so that they can live out the rest of their lives comfortably above the poverty line. For those who did not come back, the surviving spouse until his/her death or any children if the spouse is deceased and they are in full time education, should receive a pension well above the poverty line.

Most ex-servicemen and women would be highly embarrassed if they were to be classed as heroes and saw their own involvement as only doing what had to be done. However most ex-servicemen and women would be quietly pleased if for just a few seconds each year the civilian population remembered the sacrifices that the armed forces made.

[jambutty]

I find your comments totally out of order blazey and a smack in the gob for any serviceman or woman. Maybe you get off with some perverse sort of pleasure in winding people up.

Like hundreds of thousands of others, when the call to arms came in 1914, my father volunteered to fight in the Great War (WWI to you) at the tender age of just 18. His ‘mucker’ was just 17 but lied about his age so that he could join up. Many kids did, some as young as 15.

He served at Gallipolis, Egypt and Europe, got wounded three times and gassed once yet after suitable hospitalisation he went back to the front. He even stayed in the army after the war ended to help sort the Russian problem. His reward – just a demob suit. 1 shirt, 3 collars, 1 tie, 1 pair of socks and shoes, 3 piece suit, overcoat, trilby hat and a railway warrant to go home and no job to go to. He like all the others was left to fend for himself.

Shortly after the outbreak of WWII he was captured and interned in a concentration camp for the duration of the war. My mother was left with two small boys (3 & 5) to bring up with no help from the government at all.

He died in 1948 at the age of just 52 (when I was eleven) as a result of his war experiences. The only help that my mother got to bring up two boys was from the British Legion and the miserable pittance called National Assistance.

In 1954 I joined the Royal Navy at the age of 16 years and 11 months and served all over the world for 13 years before being demobbed with £200 (about 12 weeks civilian wages) and a railway warrant to get me home. Not even a demob suit. I too was left to fend for myself and I had a wife and two children to support.

If the clock could be turned back, I have no doubt that my father would volunteer for Kitchener’s army, I would certainly join the Royal Navy and my brother would also do as he did and join the RAF. Why? Because we felt it was our duty to be ready to defend the country.

Bless 'em all, bless 'em all
The long and the short and the tall
Bless all the sergeants and W.O. Ones
Bless all the corp'rals and their blinking sons
For we're saying good-bye to them all
As back to the barracks we crawl
You'll get no promotion this side of the ocean
So cheer up my lads Bless 'em all.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Jambutty that says it all........you and your relatives all have the experience -first hand,of the homecoming, to a land that these boys were told would be fit for heroes.....and found that the politicians promises were blown away like dust.
My dad was rescued from the Dunkirk beaches....two of his best friends never made it home.......he suffered ill health for many years as a direct result of his war time service.....and he and my mother were too proud to ask for, or expect any help.....until they were in dire straits. Then when they asked for help none was forthcoming. And Blazey thinks she knows all about the war because she was taught it at school! And she also thinks that being under an occupied force 'would be no bad thing'...it makes me want to weep.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Excellent post Jambutty.

My father was in WWII. He was blown over a wall by a bomb but he was one of the lucky ones. Him and his mate survived. They were thrown over the wall by the blast. Others who had been closer to the bomb by were torn to pieces. How do you live with something like that? How do you live with the memory of people with arms and legs ripped off? THat was only part of it. He didn't talk about it. I only found out gradually and it wasn't until I saw one of those TV documentaries that it really came home to me what he'd been through.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by jambutty

I find your comments totally out of order blazey and a smack in the gob for any serviceman or woman. Maybe you get off with some perverse sort of pleasure in winding people up.

Like hundreds of thousands of others, when the call to arms came in 1914, my father volunteered to fight in the Great War (WWI to you) at the tender age of just 18. His ‘mucker’ was just 17 but lied about his age so that he could join up. Many kids did, some as young as 15.

He served at Gallipolis, Egypt and Europe, got wounded three times and gassed once yet after suitable hospitalisation he went back to the front. He even stayed in the army after the war ended to help sort the Russian problem. His reward – just a demob suit. 1 shirt, 3 collars, 1 tie, 1 pair of socks and shoes, 3 piece suit, overcoat, trilby hat and a railway warrant to go home and no job to go to. He like all the others was left to fend for himself.

Shortly after the outbreak of WWII he was captured and interned in a concentration camp for the duration of the war. My mother was left with two small boys (3 & 5) to bring up with no help from the government at all.

He died in 1948 at the age of just 52 (when I was eleven) as a result of his war experiences. The only help that my mother got to bring up two boys was from the British Legion and the miserable pittance called National Assistance.

In 1954 I joined the Royal Navy at the age of 16 years and 11 months and served all over the world for 13 years before being demobbed with £200 (about 12 weeks civilian wages) and a railway warrant to get me home. Not even a demob suit. I too was left to fend for myself and I had a wife and two children to support.

If the clock could be turned back, I have no doubt that my father would volunteer for Kitchener’s army, I would certainly join the Royal Navy and my brother would also do as he did and join the RAF. Why? Because we felt it was our duty to be ready to defend the country.

Bless 'em all, bless 'em all
The long and the short and the tall
Bless all the sergeants and W.O. Ones
Bless all the corp'rals and their blinking sons
For we're saying good-bye to them all
As back to the barracks we crawl
You'll get no promotion this side of the ocean
So cheer up my lads Bless 'em all.

One day my generation might be looking after you lot in carehomes. Thats if the government bother funding them for you all.

I said they deserve recognition and didnt give an opinion on benefits. I dont think medals are necessary. I think thats simple enough.

The new generation of people in this country move to fast to stop and think about the old people in care homes or a past war. They have the future to think about.

If I deserve a smack in the gob so be it, it saves me going to bother remembering accy pals on november 11th in the rain just to be shouted at by the old codgers on accy web.

[WillowTheWhisp]

If you had family who served in the war blazey why don't you show them some respect?

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by blazey

The new generation of people in this country move to fast to stop and think about the old people in care homes or a past war. They have the future to think about.

If I deserve a smack in the gob so be it, it saves me going to bother remembering accy pals on november 11th in the rain just to be shouted at by the old codgers on accy web.

Not all young people are as appallingly self centred as you. You wouldn't have a future to be moving towards at any speed if it weren't for those people who fought for your right to live in a free country.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

If you had family who served in the war blazey why don't you show them some respect?

Because I'm not showing them disrespect by saying they would probably be happy without medals.
By saying that you assumed I also meant the benefit system (or lack of).

Just because I think most servicemen should be satisfied with the honour they recieve on returning isnt offensive.

Many Americans want their sons to join the army to do honour for the family.
A hell of alot of american families have sons in the army.

How many people on accy web have sons in the forces right now serving in Iraq? Even Harry isnt allowed to honourably die in the war anymore. Nobody gives a damn about the forces in this generation because most people now think education and getting a good career is the right choice, not joining the army.

The army only really advertise at those with low/no gcse's anymore. And thats because people WITH gcse's want the honour of a university education, not the army thats now reknown for the number of chavs in it.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Not all young people are as appallingly self centred as you. You wouldn't have a future to be moving towards at any speed if it weren't for those people who fought for your right to live in a free country.

Maybe it wouldnt be so bad living under German ruling, I wouldnt know and neither would you seen as it never happened. We fought to have terrorism laws inforced on us and 'politically correct' crap.

Well i'll exercise my freedom of speech. I didnt say one offending thing til you lot started nagging me and picking fault as usual.

I said medals werent necessary and mentioned the current war. Big ****ing deal.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by blazey

Maybe it wouldnt be so bad living under German ruling, I wouldnt know and neither would you seen as it never happened. We fought to have terrorism laws inforced on us and 'politically correct' crap.

Well i'll exercise my freedom of speech. I didnt say one offending thing til you lot started nagging me and picking fault as usual.

I said medals werent necessary and mentioned the current war. Big ****ing deal.

Most of the servicemen who fought in the wars didn't get medals. What would have been nice though would have been if they'd had a decent leg up into civilian life when they were demobbed.

Yes you did say one offending thing and you've said it again - the idea that it wouldn't have been so bad to live under German rule.

Are you really so naive? It wouldn't have been anything like the Germany of today. You wouldn't have had the freedom to voice your opinion for one thing. If Hitler had won the war and his party had ruled this country since the 1940s do you think it would be a country worth living in? Do you think some of us would even have been allowed to live? I can think of several who would have been consigned to extermination camps. Or don't you believe they existed?

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by blazey

Maybe it wouldnt be so bad living under German ruling, I wouldnt know and neither would you seen as it never happened.

Incredible, truly incredible. And I thought you were supposed to be educated.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Try reading the accounts in this album blazey and then tell us it wouldn't have been so bad to live under that regime.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Try reading the accounts in this album blazey and then tell us it wouldn't have been so bad to live under that regime.

That sites on my favourites aswell. I have quite a few, I used them for my art project.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Incredible, truly incredible. And I thought you were supposed to be educated.

I agree with that comment without reservation.
I know that Len has cleaned this thread up somewhat which is good.
As a veteran or ex-serviceman whichever you want to call it, many veterans will be very upset if the thread is left in its current format.
The rantings of a young member, who has only just reached majority has turned this thread into a farce.
I do not appreciate being called an old fogi or any other derogatory remark as regards my service or any remarks aimed at my fellow servicemen and women
who have served this country with distinction over many years.
The way this thread has gone it is hard to believe that the member in question has if fact been the author

[WillowTheWhisp]

I find it rather sad that the images of starving inmates of Bergen-Belsen have been reduced to an art project relating to size 0 fashion models.