what do you think about the chinese occupation of tibet

[Tracy J]

Originally Posted by Eric

Idealism is fine ... I have a streak of it myself ... but here you are suggesting that olympic athletes, without their consent, are to be used as pawns in a cause they may or may not agree with, or even understand. If you wish to express your solidarity with Tibetans you are free to do so, but to coerce others into supporting your beliefs is wrong ... you can't promote the freedom of one group, by denying the freedoms of another group.

im not trying to coerce anybody to think the way i do...i was just wondering what others had to say about this topic,,,

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Perhaps you could enlighten me on something that has always puzzled me, Eric. Why is it that many (although not all) liberal-minded "idealists" are very choosy about the repressive police states that they condemn? Apartheid-era South Africa, Allende's Chile and Israel have all been on the list. However, left-wing and black-on-black repression seem to elicit a decidedly lukewarm response from our comrades. Communist China, North Korea and a depressing list of African countries such as Amin's Uganda. Then, of course, there was the Soviet-era USSR which, despite its massive abuses of human rights, drew positive praise from some quarters of the left. I'm consistent in as much as I condemn all dicatorships and police states - others seem less so.

I don't think that I'm all that good at enlightenment, and I don't agree with the "liberal left" all that much. I believe that most, maybe all, protests of the kind going on right now are tinged with more than a little hypocrisy. Maybe this applies to all protests of human rights abuses. And it always seems to me that a lot of sinners are casting a hell of a lot of stones. I think I tried to make this point earlier when I talked about Canada's poor record ... little short of abysmal ... in dealing with First Nations issues. Maybe Kissinger summed it up when he said that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. No protest is completely idealistic, all are tinged with national politics and ideology. Perhaps we should question our own ideologies before we condemn those of others - or better still, at the same time. In the developed, "western" world we remain in the grip of ideology, conforming to social reality as "natural" rather than critically questioning how it -and ourselves - came to be constructed, and so can possibly be transformed. I believe that it is good to take and hold the moral high ground ... but we have to be sure that our morality is the right one, or is at least as moral as it can be in this screwed up world. If everything were as clear cut as the struggle against Hitler and that against Apartheid acting in the right way would be easy ... but things are not that simple.

I don't think this has been enlightening ... but I don't have time to write the book

Maybe the answer lies in Anarchy.

[Wynonie Harris]

Right, thank you for that, Eric. I reckon I'll have to go away, lie down and have a long think about it!

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Right, thank you for that, Eric. I reckon I'll have to go away, lie down and have a long think about it!

Yeh, I know that what I wrote was confused and confusing, but it is difficult for me to express complex issues in a small medium. I think that the point at the root of what I was trying to say is that at the same time we criticize those who act according to an ideology different from ours, we refuse to admit, in a sense, that we actually have an ideolgy. We don't question the way in which we organize our social structure ... we assume that it is the right and natural way. We use "ideology" as a pejoriative ... something that totalitarians have, but we really don't; a sort of "we are always right and they are usually wrong", unless they agree with us. One could argue that "democracy" and "totalitarianism" are functional rather than ontological terms: they tell us about what we do, not about the fixed being of things. I think I should stop before I confuse myself Damn, that's good weed

[Wynonie Harris]

Err, right, Eric, whatever you say...but I STILL don't understand why bleeding heart liberals condemn some totalitarian regimes, but not others. Why are there no street protests or pop stars making records about Zimbabwe?

Maybe it's one of those things like quantum physics that are destined to remain forever a mystery to me.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Err, right, Eric, whatever you say...but I STILL don't understand why bleeding heart liberals condemn some totalitarian regimes, but not others. Why are there no street protests or pop stars making records about Zimbabwe?

Maybe it's one of those things like quantum physics that are destined to remain forever a mystery to me.

There's a neat little book called "Atom: A Journey Through the Sub-Atomic Cosmos." It's by Asimove, the sci-fi guy. Should clear up your problems with quantum theory.

[Tracy J]

Originally Posted by Eric

There's a neat little book called "Atom: A Journey Through the Sub-Atomic Cosmos." It's by Asimove, the sci-fi guy. Should clear up your problems with quantum theory.

quantum physics now thats a fun subject heres a couple of interesting books to try ,,Imagining the TENTH Dimension,,by Rob Bryanton or The Yoga Time Travel,,by Fred Alan Wolf PH.D,,,,also by Wolf Taking the Quantum Leap,,,its very interesting stuff

[Wynonie Harris]

As my old physics teacher, Jackie Foulds, once told me that I was one of the worst pupils he'd ever taught, I think it might be time to quietly take my leave from this thread.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

As my old physics teacher, Jackie Foulds, once told me that I was one of the worst pupils he'd ever taught, I think it might be time to quietly take my leave from this thread.

You had him too eh! I remember the year that "Lancashire Life" did a feature on the old pile called "The School that Produces Professors." They posed a picture in the old physics lab with JF explaining something or other about something or other to a group of eager lads. I was in the picture ... my only claim to fame other than riding Dan Aykroyd's Harley.

[Tealeaf]

The last time I sat in a Chinese restaurant or had a takeaway was in 1980; I have not indulged in any of their food since, in protest at the occupation of Tibet. Now, I do realise that not everyone has the same liberal, idealistic outlook on life as myself but it would be nice to see the whole of Accy Web boycotting the Peking Olympics. You will feel alot better for it.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

The last time I sat in a Chinese restaurant or had a takeaway was in 1980; I have not indulged in any of their food since, in protest at the occupation of Tibet. Now, I do realise that not everyone has the same liberal, idealistic outlook on life as myself but it would be nice to see the whole of Accy Web boycotting the Peking Olympics. You will feel alot better for it.

I would hazzard a guess that no one on AccyWeb supports the Chinese in Tibet, but I don't think everyone would feel better about boycotting the Olympics. The Games are an international event and in a sense they are more important ... esp. to the athletes ... than where the games are held. One could also make the point that the Chinese already know that many in the world are pi**ed off at what they are doing in Tibet, an international boycott would not bring it home any harder to them. Boycotting Chinese imports would perhaps be better (altho' one has to be quick before they are recalled for containing too much lead) And I will still eat chinese food ... the Chinese restaurants in my community are owned by second and third generation Canadians ... hell they are rmore Canadian than I am ... Just an aside: when PM Jean Chretien refused to join GW's dirty little war in Iraq, many Americans boycotted Canadian Club rye, and Canada Dry Ginger Ale ... ironically both products are manufactured by British owned companies, and the Brits were the only real allies the yanks had. Could never understand why Britain joined in ... the Americans, ok, people who could be persuaded by Clinton to believe that a blow job is not sex, could easily swallow (oops) the lie about weapons of mass destruction ... enough wandering, I'm outa here.

[Tracy J]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

The last time I sat in a Chinese restaurant or had a takeaway was in 1980; I have not indulged in any of their food since, in protest at the occupation of Tibet. Now, I do realise that not everyone has the same liberal, idealistic outlook on life as myself but it would be nice to see the whole of Accy Web boycotting the Peking Olympics. You will feel alot better for it.

you rock Tealeaf

[shillelagh]

knew we had a thread somewhere...

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