What has happened to Britain?

[JohnW]

Hi Doug,

All these terrorist groups must be getting lots of dosh from somewhere. I'm quite sure it does not all come from the USA. Since 9/11 there have been some very strict internal controls imposed upon banks and other financial institutions with regard to the reporting of anything suspicious regarding new accounts and cash transactions over a certain amount. New accounts are severely vetted and financial institutions can be prosecuted with regard to due diligence when it comes to failing to report certain criteria and transactions. This, of course, is internal and the success of such an operation is very difficult to measure. I know much of this because I work for a credit union and my department is charged with reporting such things. Imagine how difficult
it must be to monitor international transactions where this country has no control over what is and isn't reported etc. If I'm a terrorist sympathiser living in America and I decide to send you some cash knowing that it will be forwarded to some terror organisation over in the UK, how are the authorities here supposed to monitor that? We have to rely on the UK being as diligent as we are. I'm sure that you are as diligent, but can the same be said of Ireland? Can the same be said of Saudi Arabia, and a whole miriad of other fringe countries that do not have the sophisticated technology or expertise that we have here in the west? I'm quite sure, that any one of us who wished to fund terrorism could find a way to do so if we worked at it. In fact, anyone who uses illegal drugs is more than likely, unwittingly or not, funding terrorism. I am quite sure that by the law of averages, that must include some of the people who are posting to this very forum. I have never considered you a patronising sort of person. I'm quite sure that you and I can have a difference of opinion without falling out or being insulted.

My main concern in all of this is to try to establish that America and Britain are truly friends. Even friends so large and powerful have differences of opinion. But 'Yank bashing' seems to be a bit popular at the moment and I think it is sadly misplaced. You and I can agree to differ on this forum and nothing of importance in our lives is going to be changed. When superpower-friends have differences of opinion there is a lot more at stake, but they are still friends. They still need to work together to try to reach a mutually beneficial solution to whatever problem is on the table.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by JohnW

In fact, anyone who uses illegal drugs is more than likely, unwittingly or not, funding terrorism. I am quite sure that by the law of averages, that must include some of the people who are posting to this very forum.

My main concern in all of this is to try to establish that America and Britain are truly friends. Even friends so large and powerful have differences of opinion. But 'Yank bashing' seems to be a bit popular at the moment and I think it is sadly misplaced. You and I can agree to differ on this forum and nothing of importance in our lives is going to be changed. When superpower-friends have differences of opinion there is a lot more at stake, but they are still friends. They still need to work together to try to reach a mutually beneficial solution to whatever problem is on the table.

No problem there John and you have stated you case with both honesty and eloquence, the principles of you case I agree with it’s the players I’m not to sure of.

In relation to the first edited Quote, I’m sure your right and the same goes for those who frequent the Pub’s and club’s of Blackpool throughout the 70s, 80, and 90s, they give more support to some of these groups more than they may ever realise. The town was one of the safest places in the UK throughout those periods mainly as a result of the fact that no one wanted to cut off the funding so easily raised in the resort.

[Alan Gilmartin]

Not having a dig, just stating a fact. Im not ani American, far from it, if Australia gets into trouble we expect the US to help out. I love American music, books,films tv,magazines, fastfood, etc, etc, etc. Its just the way I feel about John Howard.There are a hell of a lot Americans born and bred, that are a lot more critical than any of us. I am just on the outside looking in. I have never been to the US, but they seem to be very insular.

[JohnW]

Hi Alan,

When you said "Autralia is going the American way..........." I felt the inference was, that you were not pleased. It certainly sounded like a complaint to me, if I misinterpreted that statement then I apologise. Apart from that I have to agree that Americans are insular. The main reason for that is that a vast proportion of them are untravelled. They have never set foot outside of their own country except, in the case of northerners, to go to Canada and southerners, to go to Mexico. This faction of the American public is blissfully unaware of what goes on in the rest of the western world. They think that Europe is just the same as here when, in fact, in some ways it is very diffierent.

I always consider that you cannot judge a people fairly unless you have seen them on their own turf. Please take it from one who has lived in both Europe and America that, for the most part, they are the most generous, pleasant and good natured people, although sometimes a little naive. I also put that down to the fact that they are untravelled. Of course, there are exceptions, just like in everything else and some of them are loud and haughty, happily, these are a very small minority. As individuals, they really try to do the right thing. There are some people here very much against the war in Iraq and are very vocal in their concern. Others, consider we are doing the right thing for all parties. No-one can ever hope to get it all right can they? As a US President, or the Prime Minister of the UK or Australia you are going to be damned if you do and damned if you don't. Let's face it, some British, Australian and American people thought we should have left Hitler alone.

It's not all that many years ago that the two large superpowers of the time, America and Russia, were slogging it out to become top dog in the world. All I can say is, thank God it was the Americans who won that race. I think our lives would be a damn sight worse had it gone the other way. The US has, reluctantly I believe, taken over the mantle of world policeman from Great Britain. The Brits were not exactly popular when they had the job, and still aren't for that matter, it just goes with the territory of being the most powerful nation in the world.

As I said to Doug in a previous post, I think it's great that we can have these discussions without becoming aggressive and insulting towards one another. I also feel that we all have something to learn from the other point of view, even if we cannot agree entirely.

[Busman747]

Thank you JohnW, One of the things I love about forums is getting to hear opinions from around the world and you are a good ambassador for the United States! We once "clashed" when I made reference in another thread about American teenagers but I find it so interesting to hear the views of others on how they see us Brits as I am sure that you do also.
In the instance of this particular thread, I found your views riveting especially your comments made on 25/08 to Mickey. I totally agree with you and personally am in full favour of a continued relationship between the U.S. and the U.K. If we were threatened by another nation in the future, I feel sure that the U.S. would back us to the hilt ---but if we relied on the European countries for help, they would still be debating the merits of helping or not years after we have been taken over!

Saying that, How strong is censorship in the U.S,? The reason I ask this is that my I.S.P. is AOL and while reading this thread, am continually being bombarded with a message saying "THIS AREA OF AMERICA ON LINE IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE" It hasn't otherwise affected my net but I wonder if this posting will be allowed to go through? and has anyone else come across this? In all the years with AOL, I haven't come across this particular message before, Have you upset anyone on high JohnW??

[Mickey_T_Fish]

Just to clarify my position on some things!

I have no problem with the actual relationship between America and the UK - it is obviously quite profitable to both parties in any number of ways. I thought I was having a go at Blair - not blaming America for everything that is wrong with England! If I appeared to do otherwise (and I have oft been accused of muddling my meanings!!) - I apologise. I have never visited America, but would love to do so. There are so many places there I would like to see - New york, Texas, New orleans, Vegas, Washington, etc. etc.

In saying that, I have a major disliking of George Dubya - I don't like his methods. He's too slimy, too arrogant, and can't answer questions unless they've been vetted at least 10 times - oh my god - he sounds exactly like Tony B!!!!!!

My main argument against the Iraq invasion (and I agree JohnW, we will never know all the facts surrounding the issue) is that proper channels were not followed. If we had waited for the UN to agree military action against Saddam - which they would surely have done eventually - the invasion would have had international justification. The constant backtracking with regards to why Iraq was invaded - ie. WMD is not so important, Saddam was evil and needed replacing - really riles me. We (and I mean Britain first of all) have no right interfering in the affairs of a country in this way without provocation. I hasten to add that I can understand why America felt the need to strike out in some way, after all 9/11 isn't that long ago.

Anyway, on a lighter note, and moving back towards the centre of this thread, do you remember how you used to visit your mum, and you had to give her 3 rings when you got home, just to let her know you were safe !!!!!!!

[Ifty]

What has happened to Britain this thread is called. My parents remember this as a country where freedom was important including free speach. Now there is no free speach. This is not the country it was and which they tell me of. I think that is a shame. I think it would be better to have the freedom to be allowed our individual opinions. If I give my opinion as why this is so changed now I maybe will be banned again for having that opinion. I assume that was why I was banned. I was not told. So if I do the same wrong thing again from ignorance I suppose I will be banned again.

[Darby]

Well... Ifty,

I know this country has deteriorated in the last 2 or 3 decades, socially and morally. However, and unfortunately, we cannot bring the old values back. But there are still some very good people in Accy and the rest of UK. We do not have any shining examples of leadership with truth and honesty (rare commodities these days.), that can guide us (and I mean all of society).
Crime is no longer reported let alone punished. Evil is all around us. People are punished (or berated) for voicing their views or using certain words that are considered by the vast minority to constitute a "thought" crime. George Orwells vision of to-morrow has been here for several years, and now we are not supposed to "think" some things!!

Answers....Apart from a benign dictatorship taking the reins of power, I can't see anything being done to reverse the current situation of our society. Nobody is sensible enough or strong enough or has the courage to stand up to the vociferous minority who would rule our land from the depths of wanton destruction.

I know that you feel aggrieved about being "closed" out of the site for what you percieved as simply "stating your opinion". But lets move on and be the wiser for it!! If you want to make your opinion known, and put your point of view, your way. Then be a bit cleverer, and use a more subtle method. (and here I'm not trying to lecture you or anybody else, nor am I talking down to anyone...I'm simply not that clever or that qualified). You may find that there are many on this site who would support your sentiment.
Unfortunately there are those who will snipe, and ridicule you for the least infringement of their ideas.

On this site (which to my humble opinion is a good reflection of North of England society), we can all discuss many things, and agree or disagree, but let's just try to win small victories with humour and a sense of real English justice. :engsmil:

[JohnW]

Hi Busman,

Thank you for your reply. I really don't know what is happening with your ISP problem, but can assure you that this small fish in this very large pond hasn't got enough clout to upset anyone on low never mind on high! Censorship here is probably the about the same as over there. We can never say that it doesn't happen can we? However, I think our two countries are as "free with information" for want of a better phrase, as any country in the world.

Hi Mickey T,

I encourage you to visit America. It is a great place for a vacation especially my home state of Florida. Although you don't want to come over at this time of year when Hurricane season is in full flow. If you like theme parks and have children, then Orlando is fabulous with Disney World, the Epcot Centre, Universal Studios, MGM Studios, Sea World, Wet and Wild and lots of others within a few miles. If you like golf, we have great courses throughout the state most of them very cheap to play. You can get deals at Lategolfer.com and probably play many of the state's courses for less than fifteen pounds. This includes a cart, very few people walk it around over here. We also have lovely beaches on both coasts, although I believe the Gulf coast to be the better of the two. Sarasota is one of my favourite places.

I love the reasons you give for not liking GWB and TB. "Slimy, arrogant and never answers questions unless they have been vetted 10 times" Isn't that a dictionary defintion of all polititians?? Being politically right of centre, I have to admit to liking GWB better than the running Democrat Kerry. I have to agree with many comments on here that infer Tony Blair is more right wing than left. So, I quite like him also. When I say I "like" them, I mean as much as I could, considering that they are politicians and I generally dislike them anyway. It's all relevant isn't it?

Hi Ifty,

I really don't know which post caused you to be banned. Actually, seeing you are back posting, it was more of a suspension than a banning eh? Maybe you used bad language or were insulting, I don't know, but I can't imagine that you were suspended just for voicing your opinion. As Darby says above, always remember that if you voice an opinion you will find someone who has a different idea. That's a good thing as long as the differences do not provoke insults and bad feeling. I think this thread is a good example of how people's opinions can differ greatly without anyone feeling hurt or insulted by other points of view.

Hi Darby,

As usual, your post is to the point and insightful. Ever the voice of firm reasoning. What a pleasure to have discussions with people like you on this site.

Y'all have a happy Tuesday now ya hear?

[Mickey_T_Fish]

If my 3 and a half year old has anythig to do with it, we'd be in Florida tomorrow!!!!


His mother and grandmother tell him constantly that we'll be going soon (to see Mickey mouse et al!). I don't get a say in this, just an ulcer from trying to earn enough to pay for it!!!!!

I think my final word on politicians has got to be that how a politician is portrayed in the media has even more impact on his popularity than we realise - and I think we already know it's very important. For instance, in this country, John Kerry is seen as the greatest political force since JFK! I read Time and some of the broadsheets, and whilst our press are trying to engineer the downfall of George Dubya, they talk Mr Kerry up. I think this is the classic British thing of favouring the underdog, and taking those on top off their pedestals.

I must say, the idea of all that golfing for £15 is rather tempting............ !

[JohnW]

If you come over Mickey and are anywhere near St. Augustine give me a PM. I live on a golf course and we'll have a round together. I have a spare set of clubs you can borrow if you don't bring your own. Mind you, I am the worlds worse golfer so you will have to be very patient with me and give me 5 strokes per hole. If you do, I'll play you for $1000 per hole matchplay.

[Darby]

Originally Posted by JohnW

If you come over Mickey and are anywhere near St. Augustine give me a PM. I live on a golf course and we'll have a round together. I have a spare set of clubs you can borrow if you don't bring your own. Mind you, I am the worlds worse golfer so you will have to be very patient with me and give me 5 strokes per hole. If you do, I'll play you for $1000 per hole matchplay.

What's the term used...."Bandit"???

[JohnW]

Pretty close Darby!