What is the alternative?

[Exile on Spencer St]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Your GP is paid to look after you whether you visit the practice or not.

Am I right in understanding that, contrary to most folks' assumption, GPs are not and have never been 'part' of the NHS? Aren't they private businesses who contract to the NHS, in the same way that big companies like Amey now contract to County Council's to do highway works.
GPs have "had their mouths stuffed with gold" at least twice by Labour Governments, to provide services to the public. I'm not old enough to remember Nye Bevan being the first but it's pathetic that sixty-eight years on signs like the one above (closed all day!) is so common.

[Margaret Pilkington]

They are contracted to the NHS, but can mix the NHS work with private practice.

My understanding is that they are paid for the number of patients they have on their list whether you visit them or not( which is why there was the hooha recently about GP's claiming money for 'ghost patients'...that is patients who are no longer registered with them)
This payment in itself is lucrative, but then GP's will get extra payments for things like flu jabs(though they are rquired to meet certain quotas), family planning services and other health/ education interventions.

http://www.nhshistory.net/gppay.pdf

The above link provides an interesting read, as does the one below.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...09/nhs.health1

[Rowlf]

You are spot on there Margaret re the moving of A&E to Blackburn. I live in Burnley and most folk here were appalled when it happened. Everyone said BRH would not be able to cope with the extra patients and so it has proved. As for heart attacks... my mum collapsed in the Arndale in Accrington with one and the journey from there to the old infirmary seemed to take for ever so how much worse for folk from Burnley or Nelson or Colne. Unfortunately in my mums case it would have made no difference but there must be many to whom it would. I remember there being the case of one elderly lady who fell on the path outside Burnley General and she had to wait there on the ground till an ambulance came to take her to Blackburn. Absolutely stupid.

[maxthecollie]

It doesn't help with Chorley A & E shut.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Every A&E that is closed increases the pressure on the remaining A&E departments.

If GP services were better then maybe, just maybe some of that pressure might ease.
It would still not solve the pressure on hospital beds though.
It is a sad fact that the closure of wards has made it impossible to accommodate all the patients that need beds.
Also what complicates things is that local councils have to pay for interim residential or half way house care. Every day that they can keep a patient in hospital rather than in a council provided care means money saved.

It isn't just a case of overhauling the NHS, social care needs to be overhauled too and the two services need to run in tandem and complement each other.
It does not matter how much money is thrown at the NHS, if social care is lacking or underfunded then any improvements will never have the desired effects.
You do not need to be a genius to see this.

[Rowlf]

A few years ago 'Care in the Community' was supposed to be THE thing. Trouble is that the funding was not forth coming to pay for it. The elderly have been left isolated because Meals on wheels and home helps have been discontinued. The so called help now is a ten minute call if you re lucky. Patients would rather be in their own home but without the back up they cannot manage. If the overseas aid were redirected to the NHS it would be a start. It would certainly do more good than funding a girl band somewhere in Africa.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Rowlf

A few years ago 'Care in the Community' was supposed to be THE thing. Trouble is that the funding was not forth coming to pay for it. The elderly have been left isolated because Meals on wheels and home helps have been discontinued. The so called help now is a ten minute call if you re lucky. Patients would rather be in their own home but without the back up they cannot manage. If the overseas aid were redirected to the NHS it would be a start. It would certainly do more good than funding a girl band somewhere in Africa.

I have not HEARD 1 M.P. from any party suggest cutting Foreign Aid and using it for the N.H.S. or Care or anything and seriously doubt i ever will. yet i know for sure people have suggested this to different M.P.s

[Less]

Originally Posted by cashman

I have not HEARD 1 M.P. from any party suggest cutting Foreign Aid and using it for the N.H.S. or Care or anything and seriously doubt i ever will. yet i know for sure people have suggested this to different M.P.s

Can someone tell me, what use is 'Foreign Aid', it has been going on since, well, since before I had to start work and pay taxes!

Every year we get told we are third worlding this or fourth worlding that, we are so generous to the brown world (yes, they deserve looking after) and yet I have a mate in hospital who gets the minimum of assistance even though when he was fit he paid into this corrupt system now he's getting just a polite nod then a shake of the shoulders, 'this is all we can do for you' if only you had worked harder and paid more.

[Margaret Pilkington]

The sad thing Less, is that there are many in the similar position to your friend.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The sad thing Less, is that there are many in the similar position to your friend.

Yes I know, but why should he and the many in similar positions, be left to struggle in this Country whilst our politicians are willing to pay for folk abroad that wouldn't give a toss about him?

[Margaret Pilkington]

They shouldn't..That is the answer, but you and I both know how deaf they are to the concerns of those people the elite consider to be the peasants, the uneducated, the plebs.
We are of little consequence. The politicians don't get any kudos for looking after their own folk, they get kudos from sending money to places where it can be siphoned off by corrupt leaders and despots....countries that have their own space programmes. The Department for International Development should be disbanded and those civil servants should be directed to forming strategies to address the current problems we have in this country. It won't happen because there is no benefit to our international reputation.

We should be giving nothing away while there is a deficiency in elderly care, social deprivation and the current crisis in our NHS....even though I really do believe that the problems in the NHS need an intelligent approach, and radical reform, rather than just money being thrown at them.

[Less]

A few years ago such things as lung and heart transplants were the 'in' thing, supposedly giving people an extra 10 years of life, (I imagine at great expense with all the drugs needed for preventing rejection).

If 10 years ago they had just spent a small percentage of that trying to keep him fit instead of ignoring his condition, he would probably have had another 10 years at least to pay towards 'foreign aid'.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes Less...you are right.

[Hill Walker]

Originally Posted by Less

Can someone tell me, what use is 'Foreign Aid', it has been going on since, well, since before I had to start work and pay taxes!

Every year we get told we are third worlding this or fourth worlding that, we are so generous to the brown world (yes, they deserve looking after) and yet I have a mate in hospital who gets the minimum of assistance even though when he was fit he paid into this corrupt system now he's getting just a polite nod then a shake of the shoulders, 'this is all we can do for you' if only you had worked harder and paid more.

I may be wrong but I have a vague memory that 'Foreign Aid' was created at the time the UN was setup and was/is something all/most 'developed' countries agreed to pay, a bit like the 2% GDP all NATO members are supposed to spend on their forces. Needless to say like most international agreements and commitments most countries are happy to signup and then forget all about what they have agreed to. This country however does tend to do what it signs up for, we probably would have had less hassle with the EU if we followed their directives like some countries do.

[Rowlf]

I have read that 10s of thousands of Ex Pats are likely to come back to the UK if their free health care in the country they are living in is stopped when we leave the EU. That would put even more strain on the bed situation in the NHS. I did not realise they got free health care. Perhaps Dave in Germany will know. Another way to save the NHS money would be to stop the practice of not taking back walking aids after folk have had for example knee or hip surgery and no longer need them. The same goes for unused dressings etc that have not been touched. It does seem a terrible waste.